04/23/24
March 08, 2004
PIM record: fall out: "That gutless puke...."
I think it's hilarious, because it's pure bile. Not a single word of substance. And odd, in light of Clarke's antics in 1972 against those very same "(expletive) Europeans". As for his complaints against Martin, he's full of it. Has he ever heard of the rule that says the home team gets the last line change? Martin put Neil and Chara out there because he was expecting more fireworks. It's not his fault Hitchcock put out Timmander and Somik as a rebuttal. And he conveniently dismisses Brashear's taking shots at undersized Brian Pothier, and the fact that most of the players in the kerfuffle don't fight anyway. Is he honestly calling Fisher, Spezza, Smolinski, Van Allen, etc. a bunch of goons? Clarke's rant is pure spectacle, impossible to take seriously.
posted by Succa at 10:46 AM on March 08, 2004
" "I would not have hit (Martin)," Clarke said. "I am not that stupid...." hehe. one wonders....
posted by owl at 10:47 AM on March 08, 2004
cmon hockey SpoFiers! NHL penalty minutes record set by the Sens (playoff grit on the rise?) and it takes two days for the news to make SpoFi? (Yeah I point the finger at me too. I couldn't find a great link to share after a brief search.) But interesting fallout. Bob Clarke should have very little to contribute concerning proper goon etiquette. (And.... not to derail but what's up with the Avs? Losing 7-1 at home to the Flames makes them 1-5-3-1 in their last 10 home games and 2-6-2-1 in their last 11 games overall. OUCH. and the Pens! streaking!)
posted by gspm at 11:09 AM on March 08, 2004
I wish I had caught the game, because I don't feel qualified to comment. All the little subtlties of a game like this can make all the difference in the world when it comes to who is right, wrong, cheap, etc. All I know is that its Havlat's fault.
posted by garfield at 11:24 AM on March 08, 2004
I'll second what gspm said. The Sens look like they have the grit to battle through the playoffs. As for the Av's... I keep hearing rumors that Tony Granato is going to be replaced by Joel Quinville. The Av's are slipping, and they need something to shake them up. Speaking of that Flames - Av's game... Oliwa's goal was a beaut. Not bad for a player everyone thinks is just a goon. Of course then he went and taunted the Av's bench.
posted by camcanuck at 11:27 AM on March 08, 2004
I guess that's not a surprise, the Sens' lack of toughness has been their rep for years now, no matter how many goons and bulk they add. This was inevitable. Does it send a message to the rest of the league? Maybe. To the Flyers? Definitely. And it's sure rich to hear Clarkie whining like a little girl about Chris Neil being sent out to start something. Shyeah, Bobby, talk to the fist. Playoffs are coming. This is message time, and you're either giving 'em or receiving 'em. You, sir, have been served.
posted by chicobangs at 11:36 AM on March 08, 2004
I would've asked the same question of the 'Nucks, as they've really fallen off their pace. Still goal tending questions there, IMHO. As for the Avs, could it be the wall for Aebischer? He has played quite a few games already this year. Or is it just Forsberg's absence. All I know is you can't be a one line team and hoist the Cup. Speaking of hitting the wall, after putting on arguably the second best goalie performance of the year for about a month, second only to Boucher's shut out record, Luongo gets pulled in his next two starts after allowing 9 goals. What happened there?
posted by garfield at 11:37 AM on March 08, 2004
The PIM record is a little soft in this case. Nowadays, referees hand out 10-minute penalties like it's going out of style. Any time there is a brawl, everyone gets a GM. Anytime someone fights AFTER a brawl (like in this case) they get a misconduct penalty AND a game misconduct. That's an extra 20 minutes of penalties in each case. That said, it was interesting to see the highlights. A couple of comments: 1) Putting Havlat in the penalty box for the goalie was probably a smart move by Martin. It probably saved him from a severe beating. 2) Would you want to be the guy that goes up against 6'9" Chara? 3) It's pretty funny that Zhamnov plays for the Flyers and talks about how his father played AGAINST Clarke's Broad Street Bullies in 1976 USSR/NHL tilt.
posted by grum@work at 12:11 PM on March 08, 2004
Agreed. PIMS are handed out in all inclusive fight filled vacation pacakges nowadays. Anyone have an opinion on whether Martin should be suspended, as how the Flames coach Craig Button a few years ago was punished for putting out the bruisers after someone ran his goalie?
posted by garfield at 12:24 PM on March 08, 2004
It looks like I'm the first person in this thread to have actually caught the game. I was at a sports bar drowning my sorrows after yet another Raptors loss (this time to the vile Knicks) when one of my buddies started hooting at one of the TVs behind me. I turned around to see an old-fashioned all-out donnybrook. This wasn't one of those brawls where guys waltz around like an all-male square dance. These guys were wailing on each other. When they cleared the ice, another brawl broke out immediately after the ref dropped the puck. And I mean immediately. I think the gloves hit the ice the same time as the puck. This process repeated itself again...and again...and again! You really have to check the penalty times in the boxscore to truly appreciate how incredibly bizarre and entertaining this was. There were five completely separate brawls in 32 seconds of game time.
posted by Scott Carefoot at 12:37 PM on March 08, 2004
An interesting observation was brought up over at tascastake regarding the NHL's selective memory when it came to recapping the game. [pet peeve] Bettman sucks. Why can't we have a 'hockey' guy as commissioner? [pet peeve/]
posted by garfield at 01:00 PM on March 08, 2004
Scott: I caught the game too. Your summary is dead-on. Brawl after brawl after brawl. It must have taken about 30 minutes to play the last minute and a half. Chara's unfortunate dance partner was Mattias Timmander, who actually turned and screamed for help when Big Z got a hold of him. I've never seen that in my life, nor can I blame the guy. He didn't take too much of a beating though, unlike some of his teammates. Peter Bondra might have been headhunting on Esche (Burke?) on his goal at the end...he didn't seem concerned with shot accuracy. Moreso with power and wildness. I don't think Martin or Hitchcock should be suspended. As I mentioned, Hitch had last change, so the matchups were his fault alone. None of the fighting was dirty (except Brashear punching Ray with his gloves still on), and there wasn't much in the way of individual culpability. It's just two teams that hate each other. Can't suspend that. Unrelated...the Flyers just got Malakhov from the Rangers.
posted by Succa at 01:13 PM on March 08, 2004
Nice. The Rangers will take picks and prospects for anyone on their roster over the age of 27. This makes me happy.
posted by 86 at 01:18 PM on March 08, 2004
Looks like the Flyers just dumped Chris Therien to Dallas for a draft pick too.
posted by Succa at 01:28 PM on March 08, 2004
It must have taken about 30 minutes to play the last minute and a half. Old: I went to a hockey game and a boxing match broke out. Less Old: I went to a boxing match and a hockey game broke out. New: I went to a hockey game and an NBA match broke out.
posted by gspm at 02:20 PM on March 08, 2004
Shyeah, Bobby, talk to the fist. Playoffs are coming. This is message time, and you're either giving 'em or receiving 'em. You, sir, have been served. That is genius. We're all still waiting for the Quenneville-to-the-Avs thing to happen (as is TSN's Bob McKenzie, apparently). I watched the feed of the Buffalo-St. Louis tussle last night and the Sabre announcing team was pretty harsh on Colorado, saying they had some head cases who weren't showing up (my paraphrasing). The talk in our area is still that Joel will not go to the Avs, however, but show up behind the Rangers' bench next season. This links is a few days old, but Colorado GM Pierre Lacroix's outburst about the whole deal is still pretty damned funny.
posted by wfrazerjr at 02:39 PM on March 08, 2004
Martin and Hitchcock, with Quinn as head, are going to be the coaches for Team Canada this summer, right? That's going to be an interesting dynamic.
posted by mkn at 03:15 PM on March 08, 2004
I guess that's not a surprise, the Sens' lack of toughness has been their rep for years now, no matter how many goons and bulk they add. This was inevitable. Does it send a message to the rest of the league? Maybe. To the Flyers? Definitely. This sounds like the Red Wings after their bloodbath with the Avalanche back in '97. The sens have had the talent, no question, but not the toughness. Maybe this is their year?
posted by MeatSaber at 03:26 PM on March 08, 2004
Nope. (Prove me wrong, Lalime. Come on. Think you can take Belfour in a fair fight? Esche is a wuss; even a milquetoast like Arturs Irbe could kick his ass & probably has. But Belfour? There's a crazy bastard. Just ask Hitchcock. He had to coach that loon in Dallas. Eddy's nuts, and he'll kick your ass & match you shutout for shutout & he's been to the mountain and the valley & his name's on the cup already & he's even healthy for once, even. So the question, Patrick Lalime, is this: can you pull that badass shit in the Conference Finals with the whole world in your face, punk?) I'm not saying he couldn't. I'm just saying.
posted by chicobangs at 05:52 PM on March 08, 2004
And I know Belfour has settled down emotionally in Toronto. Which only tips the scales further in his favor. Also, that's wishful thinking on my part, and I'll believe in the Leafs over the Sens when it happens and not a minute before. But still.
posted by chicobangs at 06:01 PM on March 08, 2004
Lalime better hope they don't play Boston in the playoffs, with Potving in net... cause that French-Canadian's one damned fine goalie pugilist (you gotta be to beat the snot out of Hextall).
posted by mkn at 06:13 PM on March 08, 2004
Potvin, minus the 'g'. ugh.
posted by mkn at 06:14 PM on March 08, 2004
Did you know that Lalime fought Byron Dafoe last season (Dafoe won), a couple weeks after then-Senator backup Jani Hurme fought Potvin and gave him a nice shiner? And should the playoffs require a goalie scrap or two, the Sens can always call up Ray Emery...
posted by Succa at 07:58 PM on March 08, 2004
Succa - what's all this "there'd been no goalies fights in two years" line I've been reading this week? I'd heard of those Sens punchups and coulda swore that was within the last two years.
posted by gspm at 01:03 PM on March 09, 2004
Clarke has to be one of the worst GMs in the league, and he is an idiot to boot. You can't tell me he and the 'broad-street bullies' didn't use those exact tactics for years. This looks a lot like the pot calling the kettle black.