11/05/24
October 27, 2003
Like sands through the hour glass, these are the days of our lives.: Shaq wants Kobe to play more team ball. Kobe wants Shaq not to tell him how to play his game. Kobe is dropping hints he would sign somewhere else at the end of the season. From the sounds and looks of it, Kobe's play and off-court exploitations are disrupting the team chemistry. So when is someone on that team just flat out say it in plain English?
posted by jasonspaceman to basketball at 12:51 PM - 28 comments
So when is someone on that team just flat out say it in plain English? When they start out sluggish. O' Neal has pretty much said as much, albeit under the guise of "out of shape legs", but if the Lakers get off to a start like they did last year, it'll take all of Jackson's coaching knowledge, which is very vast, fortunately, to get the Lakers to play well togther in playoffs. Malone and Payton won't put up with much BS either. They're hard veterans and are in LA for one reason only. Anything that gets in the way of their championship won't last long. It'll be interesting to see where Kobe will end up next year. Could be a major shift in the NBA. On preview: that Shaq doesn't have a lick of basketball skill (passing, dribbling, shooting) I think that's an all-too-common misconception. I'm far from a Shaq fan, but for being a man his size, he moves his feet very well. He's also probably one of the top five passing centers in the league (not close to Divac or Duncan, but he's much better than he gets credit for). These have not always been the case, but one has to give credit to Shaq for not just sitting on his ass and being content with the style he played his first few seasons in the league. He has improved quite a bit since his Orlando days. All of that said, I hope the Mavs tear the Lakers a new one tomorrow night.
posted by Ufez Jones at 01:31 PM on October 27, 2003
Kobe is dropping hints he would sign somewhere else at the end of the season Like the Colorodo Penial League?
posted by mick at 01:46 PM on October 27, 2003
I've watched the last two Lakers preseason games, and Shaq has a legitimate complaint. Maybe Kobe is trying to find his shot before the regular season, but I counted numerous times where he jacked up contested shots with his teammates wide open. I wouldn't blame him if that teammate is named Mark Madsen or Samaki Walker, but with Shaq, Payton and Malone? He needs to adapt, and I don't blame Shaq for speaking up.
posted by dusted at 01:48 PM on October 27, 2003
I have to say I like Shaq stepping up and taking on the team leadership role, though he could've employed a bit more tact. In the past, Shaq displayed more questionable dedication to the team (my tow hurts, I'm fat and out of shape), so I hope he will heed his own warning of wasting the team's time to get in shape in the future.
posted by garfield at 02:05 PM on October 27, 2003
The fact that Shaq is questioning anyone's conditioning, attitude, work ethic, play, or acting acumen is laughable to say the least. Is Kobe playing bad? Yup? Is Kobe a "team-player"? Nope. Is Shaq, for that matter? Nope. Same Shit Different Day. To start this crap again, in these circumstances, in the preseason, is stupid. And Shaq has been laying these veiled potshots since camp started. Its disappointing to see that Kobe finally got hooked. As a Laker fan, I could care less. Quit bitching and start focusing on the season. Morons. As for the Dallas game, as much as I would like the Mavs to send the Lakers a resounding opening wake up call loss on opening night, its not happening. Not at Staples. The Mavs haven't beaten the Lakers at Home since what, the Harper-Blackman-Perkins days? I hope they do it none the less.
posted by lilnemo at 02:23 PM on October 27, 2003
Personally I think Kobe is the most skilled player in all of basketball, the preeminent player in the NBA. That said, he's the second most valuable player on that team. I'd just echo alot of things already said here, especially the point about Shaq seemed to have picked a funny time to diss Kobe, right when he needs his teammates to rally around him. This is going to be a difficult time for him no matter what happens, and if he can't count on support from his teammates then he WILL leave for different pastures next year.
posted by vito90 at 02:31 PM on October 27, 2003
Kobe seems to be retreating from this teammates, if you ask me, and that probably has something to do with Shaq's unpleasantries: Not taking the flight over, riding his motorcycle to and fro, basically not being a teammate. I know its a tough time for him, but to reap the collective benefits, one must be part of the collective, and not just a familiar face. At the start of camp and up till now, the Lake was behind Kobe 100%. Then Kobe repeatedly shunned their support. Can't expect them to put on their happy faces when their love goes unappreciated. I agree Spokesperson of Virtue Shaq is highly hypocritical, but it also could be a sign of maturity.
posted by garfield at 02:42 PM on October 27, 2003
also could be a sign of maturity also could be a sign that the basketball gods are about to spite Shaq for the sin of hubris.
posted by Mike McD at 02:48 PM on October 27, 2003
Dallas definitely doesn't win this one. Fortson starts at Center, and a pissed-off Shaq? I just don't see it.
posted by lilnemo at 02:50 PM on October 27, 2003
there are basketball gods? I hear ya, McD. Guess I'm too deep in my Kobe-hating mode at present.
posted by garfield at 02:53 PM on October 27, 2003
spite = smite
posted by Mike McD at 03:00 PM on October 27, 2003
Dallas definitely doesn't win this one. Fortson starts at Center, and a pissed-off Shaq? I just don't see it. Even with the horrible tandem of Fortson and Bradley at center, the Mavs are going to run up and down the court, especially in the first game of the season, especially against one of the best teams in the West, and especially in an arena where they've had some, um, issues recently. With a starting five of Shaq, a hobbled and possibly weakened Kobe, and elders Malone and Payton, plus whoever replaces the injured Rick Fox, the Lakers may have some trouble keeping up in the third and fourth. Both teams are likely to be a bit sloppy since the starting lineups have changed so much, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the Mavs walk out with a win.
posted by Ufez Jones at 03:24 PM on October 27, 2003
I wouldn't be surprised either. I just don't expect it. Devean George has looked very good in the preseason. Though he did tweak an ankle a week back. Kobe hasn't looked too good in the preseason. But its preseason. Malone is still finding his way in the post with Shaq. Payton seems to have caught on from the get go. And Shaq will just eat the Mavs frontline alive.
posted by lilnemo at 03:34 PM on October 27, 2003
Didn't we decide a few months ago that Kobe was heading for Jerry West's Grizzlies after this season? Fuck the WC, this is the year the Nets go house!
posted by billsaysthis at 04:05 PM on October 27, 2003
"I don't miss 15 games because of a toe injury that everybody knows wasn't that serious in the first place." - Kobe Bryant He is also saying his knee isn't ready for their opener. Read the article here.
posted by jasonspaceman at 09:26 PM on October 27, 2003
This is getting good (in a soap opera way), and bad (in a well, this season is shot sort of way). Thanks for the heads up jasonspaceman.
posted by lilnemo at 09:46 PM on October 27, 2003
Oh, and I'm glad Kobe said it.
In best Homer voice: "Stupid, Fatass Shaq."
posted by lilnemo at 09:47 PM on October 27, 2003
Keep in mind though that (as Lang Whitaker has suggested) 1. the whole thing could be a working of us rubes, and given Shaq's love of pro wrestling that's always possible and 2. being in turmoil has never stopped the Lakers from winning before.
posted by Justin Slotman at 06:50 AM on October 28, 2003
1. the whole thing could be a working of us rubes, and given Shaq's love of pro wrestling that's always possible and 2. being in turmoil has never stopped the Lakers from winning before. That's exactly what Antoine Walker and Antawn Jamison said last night on the local news. I get the impression that most players in the league are taking it with a giant grain of salt and are concentrating more on just playing the damn game. Can't say I'm shedding tears over Kobe not playing though.
posted by Ufez Jones at 07:45 AM on October 28, 2003
My theory is that this is all just a big joke that the team is laughing about in the locker room. It distracts the media from the Kobe trial, and gives them something to actually bring everyone together. It's all an act. And a damn good one.
posted by Bernreuther at 08:24 AM on October 29, 2003
Thing is, those comments are pretty cutting. Would they cut each other like that if it was an act?
posted by cg1001a at 10:57 AM on October 29, 2003
Does anyone seriously believe it's an act? I thought people were just having fun with conspiracy theories. BTW, did anyone watch the game last night? Watching the interaction between Shaq, Malone, Payton, and Kobe is must see TV. There was a moment where Malone, Payton, Shaq, and Kobe were sitting in that order on the bench. Payton was yucking it up and Shaq had turned his back so that Kobe was frozen out of the conversation. For a second I thought Kobe might start crying again.
posted by Mike McD at 11:47 AM on October 29, 2003
Still, the Lakers didn't have any problems putting the Mavs down, did they? Of course, playing without the Young One meant this morning's sports section had a big column on how he's instant trade bait.
posted by billsaysthis at 12:31 PM on October 29, 2003
"Shaq and I are going to move on, be teammates and help this team to a fourth title." Is Kobe aware that the Lakers won a few titles before he got there. Ass.
posted by geekyguy at 12:48 PM on October 29, 2003
The Mavs pretty much beat themselves. It was a piss-poor performance by Nash and Dirk and Finley. They've got five games to get their shit together before they play the Spurs on the 8th. Seeing Karl Malone in yellow was very odd. Not as odd as the Mavs' Reynolds Wrap jerseys, but still very very odd.
posted by Ufez Jones at 12:50 PM on October 29, 2003
I blame Dirk's buzzcut!
posted by billsaysthis at 03:48 PM on October 29, 2003
I second that. Three pointers. 0-6 from Dirk. 0-4 from Nash. 0-4 from Finley. Jamison was okay but he missed a couple of point blank shots. But ... Walker looked awesome. Not just the 5 threes, the whole package. Walker took the ball to the hoop, posted up, and passed well. And they're big. I forgot that Jamison is in the 6'8" range. So I still like the Mavs. They just played their worst game last night.
posted by Mike McD at 03:55 PM on October 29, 2003
I'm waiting for one of them to come flat out and say they "hate each others guts" and the other is "dead meat". Really. They deserve each other. I find both of them very unpleasant. I don't think either one of them is as good as they think they are. It's kind of fun that Kobe is saying (I know how to play my guard spot. He can worry about the low post, and I'll worry about the [perimeter].) exactly what I've always felt ... that Shaq doesn't have a lick of basketball skill (passing, dribbling, shooting). And of course Shaq looks like the jerk he is. The second he got a couple of buddies (Payton & Malone) and he thought he could do without Bryant he started taking pot shots at Bryant. Perfect. I can't see Bryant staying in LA with Shaq. Think about it. Kobe's at the lowest, most vulnerable point of his career, and Shaq starts taking shots at him? Kobe must be pissed. Nice loyalty there. And what's even better is that Shaq is overestimating how good he is. Pulllleeezzee. How many rings did he win pre-Kobe (He seems to have forgotten the playoff chokes with Elden, Nick, and Eddie Jones). I'd like to see him try and win with Malone and Payton. The perfect ending would be for Bryant to leave, go to New York, and the Knicks and Lakers meet in the finals. That would be fantastic.