12/21/24
August 10, 2012
Lakers to Get Howard, Lose Bynum in Four-Team Trade: The Los Angeles Lakers, Orlando Magic, Philadelphia 76ers and Denver Nuggets are finalizing a deal today that sends Dwight Howard (Orlando), Earl Clark (Orlando) and Chris Duhon (Orlando) to the Lakers; Andrew Bynum (LA) and Jason Richardson (Orlando) to the 76ers; Andre Iguodala (Philly) to the Nuggets; and Arron Afflalo (Denver), Al Harrington (Denver), Nikola Vucevic (Philly), Moe Harkless (Philly), three lottery-protected first-round draft picks (LA, Philly, Denver) and a 2013 second-round pick (Denver) to the Magic.
posted by rcade to basketball at 08:44 AM - 24 comments
The Lakers, assuming they can get Howard to sign an extension, absolutely stole this deal. Bynum is a poor man's Howard and a late first-rounder (which with their big 3, might be the last pick in the draft) to upgrade to the best centre in the league? Easy deal. Gasol as their fourth best option is pretty scary.
The Magic did what they could; two recent first rounders, three future first rounders, for a guy who absolutely destroyed his trade market value by refusing to sign extensions with anyone but the Nets. Yes, it will be a painful few years for Orlando, but the band-aid is off now and the healing can begin.
Philly...not sure. Bynum's good, but an injury and/or maturity risk, and Iguodala did so many non-scoring things for them, it's hard to imagine that two young first round prospects, Igoudala and a first rounder were worth Bynum UNLESS they get an extension.
Denver I think traded spare parts to get a solid defender and team player. Affallo probably has more long-term upside, and I don't think this is a short-term winner team, so I'm a little confused why they would go this route. They gave up two of their "best" scorers for a guy who's not really offence-first and don't have a lot of high-upside offensive players to replace. Expect a lot of 80-72 affairs.
posted by dfleming at 09:26 AM on August 10, 2012
Great.. as if the Lakers weren't insufferable before, now they get Howard for Bynum and the last pick in the first round! I hope something fouls this deal up. Or maybe one basketball won't be enough for them. The only thing I like about the entire trade is how this will be accepted in Miami...
posted by mitchigan at 09:35 AM on August 10, 2012
The thinking in Denver is that a team that led the league in scoring last year could afford to give up some scoring to upgrade the defense.
posted by rcade at 10:16 AM on August 10, 2012
Shit, yeah, I didn't notice how deep they were. I looked at their top 3 scorers, saw nobody over 16 pts, and didn't actually do the math on how many 10+ point scorers they had.
Good trade for them then. Harrington's a flawed big man and Affallo could go either way.
As a Canadian Celtics fan, I'm in a bad spot; on the one hand, I want to cheer for Nash, but I hate Howard for all of this and am ambivalent on Kobe. If a Miami-Lakers final came up, I am pretty sure I'll just take a vacation, as I can't figure out which team I hate more.
posted by dfleming at 10:24 AM on August 10, 2012
Expect a lot of 80-72 affairs.
Ha, no. The Nuggets used the most possesions in the league last year and lead the league in scoring. They didn't lose anybody special and got rid of an inefficient scorer. Afflalo and Iggy are a wash offensively but there's a chance Iggy can be better playing in Denver's tempo. There's little chance the Nuggets will be worse on offense and they got significantly better on defense.
Orlando fans aren't going to be excited about this deal, but their new build-through-the-draft GM now has a ridiculous number of picks.
You guys are awful excited about picks that are going to be in the 20s. This, to me, was the worst offer that we got wind of. The Rockets deal or the Nets deal would have been better. Didn't the Lakers offer Pau and Bynum at one point?
On edit - That's what I get for taking too long to compose my comment.
posted by tron7 at 10:25 AM on August 10, 2012
I don't know how much better an offer Orlando could have gotten when Howard only was willing to sign a contract extension with Brooklyn. There aren't many teams like the Lakers that can sign a rent-a-player and have confidence he will choose to stay with them long-term.
posted by rcade at 10:50 AM on August 10, 2012
tron, thanks for that comment; I'd seen a post on Twitter saying the Nuggets GM had graduated from "one of the best young GMs" to "one of the best GMs" but didn't really understand why (I was over-valuing Harrington based solely on seeing him against the Celtics a few times a year/ in the playoffs).
posted by yerfatma at 10:52 AM on August 10, 2012
If Howard takes his "superman" act to LA there's no way the Lakers have any shot at winning a championship. He does what he likes when he likes and has proven he is ready and willing to destroy his team if he doesn't get his way.
posted by cixelsyd at 11:07 AM on August 10, 2012
I'm pretty much in love with Masai Ujiri. Every move, every draft pick, has turned out better than expected. The thing with Harrington is that he often looks better than he is. He makes really splashy shots but all he really offers is scoring and he doesn't do that efficiently enough to warrant the number of shots he takes. Just replacing his minutes with Faried's is going to make this team significantly better. Al played hard and through a lot of injuries last year but he's a limited player at this point.
For non-basketball reasons, I hate losing Afflalo. All around nice guy that works hard every single day. I hope he lands on a contender eventually.
posted by tron7 at 11:14 AM on August 10, 2012
I don't know how much better an offer Orlando could have gotten when Howard only was willing to sign a contract extension with Brooklyn
The last Nets offer was easily better.
As was the Rockets offer. I'm not sure if there were draft picks involved in addition to the below.
It might have been the best offer remaining but they've squandered their opportunities to get better offers. Also, look at what the Nuggets got for Melo or what the Jazz got for Williams and this deal isn't half as good as either of those.
posted by tron7 at 12:22 PM on August 10, 2012
If Howard takes his "superman" act to LA there's no way the Lakers have any shot at winning a championship. He does what he likes when he likes and has proven he is ready and willing to destroy his team if he doesn't get his way.
Okay, that's the same crap Orlando was saying about Shaq.
but I hate Howard for all of this and am ambivalent on Kobe.
The main thing Howard did wrong in all of this was to agree to stay an extra year. I can't figure out why he did that because that dragged everything out even long. But, wanting to choose your own team when you are a free agent seems perfectly reasonable to me even if that means your soon-to-be-former team doesn't get much juice in return.
posted by bperk at 12:42 PM on August 10, 2012
If Howard takes his "superman" act to LA there's no way the Lakers have any shot at winning a championship.
Starting five:
- Steve Nash
- Kobe
- Me
- Pau Gasol
- Dwight Howard
posted by yerfatma at 12:50 PM on August 10, 2012
The main thing Howard did wrong in all of this was to agree to stay an extra year. I can't figure out why he did that because that dragged everything out even long.
Howard's maturity is an open question now because of his antics in Orlando. Though it will probably work out for the Lakers, the Mavericks thought that about Lamar Odom and he never got his head together for them.
posted by rcade at 01:08 PM on August 10, 2012
yerfatma - We agree totally. No chance at all? The Lakers had a chance even without Howard once they got Nash. I think Howard gives the Lakers a better chance but even with Bynum they were going to be tough. I am not sure how the lineup above isn't considered the best starting line up in the league, even with me or you in there.
posted by Atheist at 01:18 PM on August 10, 2012
Bynum has a rap in LA for being a bit of a diva, so it's not like they traded away a really disciplined center. In fact, I think the odds Howard will perform on the big stage this year are way higher. Andrew's a voiceless underperformer.
Plus, if Howard starts acting like a massive tool, you don't need to give him an extension. That should keep him in line at least until the year is over. Bynum either needed to be traded or be given a long-term deal. I heart Kupchak.
posted by phaedon at 01:46 PM on August 10, 2012
even with me or you in there.
Through the first four games of the finals I was certain that I could guard Mike Miller.
posted by tron7 at 02:07 PM on August 10, 2012
Bring scissors. He's like Samson.
posted by yerfatma at 02:10 PM on August 10, 2012
posted by phaedon at 04:12 PM on August 10, 2012
The idea of players with time remaining on a contract dictating that they be traded causes me to grind my teeth. I didn't care much for the way LeBron wound up in Miami, but he was a free agent and within his rights. Dwight Howard still had time remaining on his contract, but willfully threatened to withold his services or to deliberately under-perform. There ought to be a clause in the NBA player agreement that fines any player who has time remaining but forces a trade. Perhaps a healthy percentage of the money remaining on the contract to be paid by the player and not by a team that might acquire him would discourage this sort of behavior. The fine might also be extended to the player's agent. It seems these guys are like the little guy sitting on a player's shoulder whispering bad ideas into his ear.
posted by Howard_T at 07:50 PM on August 10, 2012
Through the first four games of the finals I was certain that I could guard Mike Miiler
You could have. You could also have scored 20 if they kept him in the game long enough. Miller is effective only as a shooter when teams need to double James or Wade.
Seriously? No chance at all?
OK, maybe.
But Kobe doesn't pass the ball to anyone, Gasol hasn't been a part of the offense since the Lakers won a championship, Howard does whatever he wants when he wants, and Steve Nash is going to have a heck of a time dealing with 4 head cases in the starting lineup (Artest will be on the court for a defensive presence).
Which of the Lakers can guard Westbrook? Durant? Harden?
Howard may may the premiere center in the game today, but he's nowhere near Shaq / Moses Malone / Kareem in their prime. More importantly, he doesn't have the focus of any players I've mentioned.
Yes, the Lakers could win. Harden and Durant could get injured. LeBron and Wade could get a deadly infections from a rogue tattoo parlor.
I don't see it.
posted by cixelsyd at 11:26 PM on August 10, 2012
Which of the Lakers can guard Westbrook? Durant? Harden?
Exactly...I think media and fans alike are overreacting to this. You could make an argument that Bynum is the second best center in the league so they are improving at that position. But they are only improving physically. Against OKC in the playoffs, Bynum was shooting around .900 at the free throw line, Howard cannot and will not match that. Both Bynam and Howard are no where strong enough mentally. While Howard is the best low post defender, he is still a liability in offense. Lakers can benefit with the pick n roll with Nash, but Nash AND Kobe are in the twilight of their careers and we are back to a normal regular season. They are still chasing OKC and will be for the years to come.
posted by sgtcookzane at 11:41 PM on August 10, 2012
But Kobe doesn't pass the ball to anyone, Gasol hasn't been a part of the offense since the Lakers won a championship, Howard does whatever he wants when he wants, and Steve Nash is going to have a heck of a time dealing with 4 head cases in the starting lineup (Artest will be on the court for a defensive presence).
None of this is remotely true but if I were to draw caricatures of these players based on media perceptions of them this is pretty much what it would look like.
While Howard is the best low post defender, he is still a liability in offense
He's in the top 10 in true shooting percentage just about every year. He took a team to the finals with an offense that lived off Howard drawing doubles and kicking to open shooters. He doesn't dream shake but that doesn't mean he's a poor offensive player.
posted by tron7 at 01:30 AM on August 11, 2012
Which of the Lakers can guard Westbrook? Durant? Harden?
Meh, I'm a magic fan and not happy with Howard, but he makes up for a lot of mistakes on Defense. He can guard the rim.
That said, OKC has DH's Kryptonite... Kendrick Perkins, for some reason, has Dwight's number. Ever since his Celtics beat down the Magic in '09-'10, Perk has been able to push, bully, and frustrate Howard.
Howard has a high shooting percentage, but you would too if you never took a shot more than 3 feet out. IMHO, I thought Roy Hibbert outplayed him on the offensive end this year. Dwight has benefitted from being a big fish in a small pond... I'll be curious to see how he handles being a part of a real team.
Dwight is soft for a big man. I'll be curious how he handles it when Kobe gets in his face and starts dropping F-bombs. Nash to Howard could be devastating, but how will Kobe feel about that cutting into his touches? Dwight's star struck and a bit immature, how will he handle Hollywood? The Big market media? Being a 3rd or 4th scoring option? Can Mike Brown keep these guys playing together? Remember Shaq and Kobe needed the Zen Master to make it all work, and it barely did. Kobe's older, more established, and more of an a-hole. (See his comments from the Olympics!) Dwight, unlike Shaq, is very thin skinned. Stan Van Gundy's criticism was too much for him to take.
I'd be stupid to say anything other than the Lakers look scary but this is hardly a slam dunk. In addition, they have a small window to make things happen before age kicks in.
posted by LostInDaJungle at 11:28 AM on August 14, 2012
Counting Vucevic and Harkless, the Magic got five first-round picks for a guy who was gone in a year. Orlando fans aren't going to be excited about this deal, but their new build-through-the-draft GM now has a ridiculous number of picks.