12/21/24
September 19, 2010
Catcher LaRue Retires Over Cueto Head Kick: St. Louis Cardinals catcher Jason LaRue has been forced into retirement by concussion-related injuries suffered because Cincinnati Reds pitcher Johnny Cueto kicked in him the head during an August brawl. "Does it suck that my career is over because Johnny Cueto started kicking me in the head?" said LaRue, who has suffered debilitating headaches and been unable to drive. "Yes, it sucks."
How is kicking LaRue in the face and Chris Carpenter in the back defending himself? Unless punches were being thrown at him, which does not appear to be the case, Cueto seems to have responded disproportionately to what was going on. From what I could see in the video, the brawl was in its stand-around-and-yell phase when he started kung fu fighting.
posted by rcade at 08:55 PM on September 19, 2010
If you don't want to suffer the consequences of what might happen in a brawl, don't get in one.
Easier said than done.
I do agree that LaRue blaming Cueto for his retirement may be misguided, but not because LaRue happened to be in that fight. And not because he was pushing Cueto against the wall either. But because I'm guessing this isn't LaRue's first concussion. Maybe Cueto's kicks were the cause of the most recent one, but a collection of them = early retirement almost always.
posted by BoKnows at 10:00 PM on September 19, 2010
Easier said than done.
Watch the video again, many players on both sides managed to stay on the outside of the circle. But, I do understand the urge to stand up for one's teammates.
From what I saw, Cueto is being pushed into the wall pretty hard, does he over-react, should he have thrown punches instead of kicks, maybe. But, it wasn't like Cueto just started throwing kicks during a stand around and yell phase. Hard to throw punches when you're pushed back into a wall/net like he was. I'm not validating anything Cueto did, he also could have easily avoided the situation.
posted by dviking at 11:43 PM on September 19, 2010
Watch the video again, many players on both sides managed to stay on the outside of the circle.
In the second half of that video link (the FSMidwest-Cards broadcast), you can see LaRue was on the outside of that circle. Then the scrum pushes toward the wall with LaRue caught in the middle of Carpenter and Rolen, ultimately being pushed into the path of Cueto's kicks. He wasn't going after Cueto and he wasn't pinning Cueto against the wall. There was a Reds player between Cueto and LaRue. In LaRue's case, "Easier said than done.", is accurate.
At the same time, Cueto was inching his way toward the middle, then as the pile moved, he ran around it (from the infield to behindd home plate) and put himself directly in the patch of the pile. That's when he was pushed into the wall and when he absolutely over-reacted and started kicking.
But, it wasn't like Cueto just started throwing kicks during a stand around and yell phase.
Cueto's kicking-and-screaming routine is entirely what caused that situation to develop from a shoving match to fisticuffs. It may not have been a stand around and yell phase, but until Cueto started kicking, I only saw yelling and shoving from both sides. Cueto absolutely escalated that incident, and judging by the suspensions given by MLB, they must agree.
Hard to throw punches when you're pushed back into a wall/net like he was.
Watch the video again. He had no reason to throw punches at all. Or kicks. Was Chris Carpenter's back throwing punches at Cueto? How about Jason LaRue's face and head? Note in the video that LaRue's arms were outstretched to either side when Cueto felt it necessary to defend himself.
I don't think you could validate Cueto's actions even if you wanted to.
posted by BoKnows at 01:23 AM on September 20, 2010
But because I'm guessing this isn't LaRue's first concussion.
I believe the number of previous concussions is 20 (diagnosed at least). So who do you blame: the guy who gave you your last one, or the guy who gave you your last one?
posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:05 AM on September 20, 2010
er. your first one or your last one. you get the idea.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:16 AM on September 20, 2010
If LaRue has really suffered 20 concussions, he has more to worry about than the end of his journeyman baseball career. That's a hell of a lot of brain trauma to endure.
posted by rcade at 09:21 AM on September 20, 2010
er. your first one or your last one. you get the idea.
Or all the ones in between?
I recall one of the Billy Joe quarterbacks, Tolliver or Hobert (quick google search didn't help), who decided to give up football when he had trouble remembering the names of his own children. Wanted to say he had about 12 or so racked up. I don't want to imagine what 20 concussions does to you.
posted by Bonkers at 09:34 AM on September 20, 2010
who decided to give up football when he had trouble remembering the names of his own children
by then it's too late
posted by bdaddy at 09:43 AM on September 20, 2010
So who do you blame: the guy who gave you your last one
Yes in this case. As a catcher, probably most if not all of the other concussions were as part of game action, such as foul balls coming off bats and hitting his mask. It happens. In this case, it was almost an intent to injure (probably not anyone in specific, but someone on the other team). You don't go in spikes up at second base, and I certainly don't see where going spikes up in a pushing match are any better.
posted by graymatters at 10:23 AM on September 20, 2010
Well, opinions differ. This wasn't a case of walking down the street and having someone bash you over the head. I think that if you get into a fight, you can't complain that you got hurt.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 10:39 AM on September 20, 2010
As a practical matter, do players in baseball really have a choice whether to get into a brawl? They have a choice whether to (a) throw punches and grapple or (b) pick a dance partner and restrain each other from violence while jabbering menacingly (the option I would choose). If they stayed in the dugout or bullpen, they'd lose the respect of teammates forever.
Or (c) Bounce an elderly and crazed Don Zimmer off the turf.
posted by rcade at 10:52 AM on September 20, 2010
Wanted to say he had about 12 or so racked up.
Kids?
posted by yerfatma at 11:13 AM on September 20, 2010
If they stayed in the dugout or bullpen, they'd lose the respect of teammates forever.
If, indeed, that is what would happen (and has anybody ever tested it?), that still constitutes a choice.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 12:52 PM on September 20, 2010
So who do you blame: the guy who gave you your last one, or the guy who gave you your last one?
Are those the only two choices? And why do we have to blame a single incident?
posted by BoKnows at 01:07 PM on September 20, 2010
If, indeed, that is what would happen (and has anybody ever tested it?), that still constitutes a choice.
Technically, yes. Practically, no.
posted by rcade at 01:56 PM on September 20, 2010
From what I could see in the video, the brawl was in its stand-around-and-yell phase when he started kung fu fighting.
I thought this was appropriate.
posted by BornIcon at 02:08 PM on September 20, 2010
BoKnows:
Are those the only two choices? And why do we have to blame a single incident?
I'm not the one doing the blaming. LaRue is the one doing that.
rcade:
Technically, yes. Practically, no.
If nobody's ever tested it, I don't see how you can know that.
BornIcon, I love that stupid song.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 03:00 PM on September 20, 2010
Obviously, LBB. I just think it's a pretty safe assumption. Baseball is a tight fraternity. Players who stay out of bench-clearing brawls would get noticed. I can't recall a single time where it has happened.
posted by rcade at 03:17 PM on September 20, 2010
Players who stay out of bench-clearing brawls would get noticed. I can't recall a single time where it has happened.
I can't remember a single instance either, but I definitely recall situations where it was brought up that a player stayed on the bench or failed to get involved. So yeah, you can stay away from the fight, but that can also cause problems.
posted by justgary at 03:34 PM on September 20, 2010
Bo But because I'm guessing this isn't LaRue's first concussion.
lbb I believe the number of previous concussions is 20 (diagnosed at least). So who do you blame: the guy who gave you your first one, or the guy who gave you your last one?
Bo Are those the only two choices? And why do we have to blame a single incident?
lbb I'm not the one doing the blaming. LaRue is the one doing that.
How did we get here?
Maybe I'm extra-dense today but I don't understand. What's your question?
posted by BoKnows at 03:39 PM on September 20, 2010
LOL!
posted by bender at 04:26 PM on September 20, 2010
BoKnows:
Maybe I'm extra-dense today but I don't understand. What's your question?
I don't have a question; you did. Several, in fact ;-)
LaRue said, "Does it suck that my career is over because Johnny Cueto started kicking me in the head?" I don't know how more explicit you can make a statement of blame -- he's blaming one incident and one guy for the ending of his career. I understand the emotional reaction, but there's no logic behind it. Unless "the last one" was a clear-cut case of exceptional trauma, as distinct from the 20, count 'em, previous diagnosed concussions, then it (and the person who caused it) are no more "to blame" for the current state of LaRue's brain than "the first one" (or all the ones in between, but does that really need to be said?).
posted by lil_brown_bat at 04:48 PM on September 20, 2010
I think Cueto is a punk for kicking in the first place. Haven't you ever been in a baseball scrum before, jackass?
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 06:04 PM on September 20, 2010
Wanted to say he had about 12 or so racked up.
Kids?
Concussions. In retrospect, it was a vaguely worded comment, for which I apologize.
But if he had 12 kids, that would be an acceptable reason for not being able to name them all. Or, it is for Antonio Cromartie...
posted by Bonkers at 11:32 PM on September 20, 2010
Players who stay out of bench-clearing brawls would get noticed. I can't recall a single time where it has happened.
One time that always sticks out was in 1999. Mariners and Yankees were involved in a short brawl (if you could even call it that). Jeter and ARod (who were still friends at the time and on opposing teams) were away from the fight and joking around. Chad Curtis took exception to this and gave Jeter an earful. But those two never really got along in the first place. Never heard if any other teammates got on Jeter about the incident.
Edit: link to account of the fight. about 1/3 way down.
posted by goddam at 11:05 AM on September 21, 2010
Not diminishing LaRue's injuries, but I think the finger pointing at Cueto is misguided. If you don't want to suffer the consequences of what might happen in a brawl, don't get in one. Cueto has as much of a right to defend himself as LaRue had to pin him to the wall.