11/17/24
January 06, 2010
Andre Dawson Elected to Baseball's Hall of Fame: Chicago Cubs outfielder Andre Dawson is in a class by himself. He was elected today to baseball's Hall of Fame with 77.9 percent of the vote. No other players received the 75 percent necessary for induction. This was the ninth time on the ballot for Dawson, one of the only three members in baseball's 400 homer, 300 stolen base club. Pitcher Bert Blyleven was just a bit outside with 74.2 percent while second baseman Roberto Alomar was within spitting distance at 73.7 percent.
This was the ninth time on the ballot for Dawson, one of the only three members in baseball's 400 homer, 300 stolen base club.
More stat finagling!
400 HR/300 SB club:
Willie Mays, Andre Dawson, Barry Bonds
300 HR/400 SB club:
Barry Bonds, Bobby Bonds
300 HR/300 SB club:*
Reggie Sanders, Willie Mays, Andre Dawson, Barry Bonds, Bobby Bonds, Steve Finley
400 HR/400 SB club:
Barry Bonds
* Alex Rodriguez needs just 3 more SB to join the club.
posted by grum@work at 04:16 PM on January 06, 2010
Good for the Hawk. He deserves it. Power, speed, glove, heart...he had it all. No one could turn on a high fastball like Dawson.
Can't possibly fathom what the hell Hall voters are thinking on Alomar, unless they are really overreacting to the spitting incident. Alomar and Hirschbeck have become friends since then, and Alomar has contributed much to Hirschbeck's charitable causes. Hopefully they will come to their senses next year. Alomar was one of the best all-around players at any position during his career, let alone second base.
Blyleven, Raines, Larkin and Jack Morris all deserve induction as well, but sadly will have to wait another year.
posted by TheQatarian at 04:18 PM on January 06, 2010
Blyleven, Raines, Larkin and Jack Morris all deserve induction as well, but sadly will have to wait another year.
You're damn right!
posted by grum@work at 04:25 PM on January 06, 2010
Ridiculous that Alomar isn't a first ballot guy. What crap. Top five at his position all time. That makes me so mad. I am not comfortable living in even one year where Ryne Sandberg is a Hall of Famer and Alomar isn't. Just doesn't make sense. Maybe it's a sign. The Mayans were right? Or not the Mayans, because that myth has been a bit muddled, but the wackos that believe in the wrong Mayan version of the myth are right? Fuck it. I'm buying a shotgun.
And thankfully, it looks like Blyleven is going to finally make it next year.
Kudos to the Hawk. He absolutely deserves it.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 05:15 PM on January 06, 2010
Every year I tell myself not to get wound up about it, but every year they do something like this Alomar vote. And Jay Mariotti's dumbass position on things doesn't help.
posted by yerfatma at 05:25 PM on January 06, 2010
This could be good news for Bonds: according to ESPN's writeup, "Mark McGwire received 128 votes (23.7 percent), 10 more than last year and matching the total from his first two times on the ballot." He's still along way from getting in, but there's strong movement in his favor. Bonds clearly belongs in the Hall of Fame due to his stats, and maybe baseball's welcoming of Roger Clemons and more votes for McGwire indicate a softening of attitude. I'm tired of Bonds being a scapegoat for an era where steroids were widely used and everyone--players, owners, the league, and fans--turned a blind eye. They can't pretend that era didn't happen, or single out one guy for punishment. If any steroids-era players go in, Bonds should too.
posted by kirkaracha at 05:31 PM on January 06, 2010
The real test for the steroid era will be when Jeff Bagwell is on the ballot.
He doesn't have the same taint that Bonds/McGwire/Sosa has, but his background has the same innuendo that others have faced:
- enormous physique (those arms!)
- power slugger
- played during the steroid era
- played with a known steroid user (Caminiti)
- had a MONSTER year (SLG 140 points higher than any other season) while playing with known steroid user
- played many seasons at the end of his career with many Mitchell-report-accused steroid users (Clemens, Pettitte, Tejada)
- someone has claimed to have provided him PEDs
If the "death to the steroid era" voters keep him at a low percentage, it won't bode well for ANYONE from that era.
Also, players that get to those instant-HOF-plateaus (like 3000 hits or 300 wins) but have been accused/caught using steroids will also be interesting. Rafael Palmeiro is going to be at the same time as Bagwell, and he does have those 3000 hits...
posted by grum@work at 12:45 AM on January 07, 2010
Rafael Palmeiro is going to be at the same time as Bagwell, and he does have those 3000 hits...
I think there is a lot of hate out there towards Palmeiro in that regard. I also thought that Palmeiro was allowed to play on and collect his 3000 hit following a positive test, but I could be mistaken on that part. Not sure how its going to play out.
The Blyleven thing is frustrating. He certainly gets my vote for best curveball.
posted by chris2sy at 02:29 PM on January 07, 2010
The fact that Alomar didn't get in on the first ballot is criminal.
AbsoF'Nlutely! How in the world is the greatest 2nd baseman to ever play the game not a 1st ballot Hall of Famer?
Congrats to the Hawk for finally making it...but I'm still pissed about Alomar, what a shame!!
posted by BornIcon at 02:39 PM on January 07, 2010
AbsoF'Nlutely! How in the world is the greatest 2nd baseman to ever play the game not a 1st ballot Hall of Famer?
Hold up. He's a HOF, but he's not anywhere near the greatest 2nd baseman.
Joe Morgan, Eddie Collins and Rogers Hornsby are easily ahead of Alomar. Then it becomes a mess with guys like Jackie Robinson and Nap Lajoie fighting for spots on the list with Alomar, Sandberg and maybe even Biggio and Kent.
I'd list Alomar as a "top 5 of all time" (with my Blue Jays bias), but I don't put him past the big three.
I also thought that Palmeiro was allowed to play on and collect his 3000 hit following a positive test, but I could be mistaken on that part. Not sure how its going to play out.
He tested positive and then there was an appeal/double-check process before announcing it. During that 2-3 week period, he crossed the 3000 hit barrier. The belief is that he KNEW he failed the test, but kept on playing.
posted by grum@work at 03:07 PM on January 07, 2010
Can't possibly fathom what the hell Hall voters are thinking on Alomar, unless they are really overreacting to the spitting incident. Alomar and Hirschbeck have become friends since then, and Alomar has contributed much to Hirschbeck's charitable causes.
Well, you can tell by The Arrogant Worms' song lyric (from Me Like Hockey) "Baseball slow like Forrest Gump, 'cept when Robbie spits on ump." That its been some time since the incident. Some people will just use any excuse to not let someone in first ballot who deserves to go in. Some voters seem get stuck thinking so-and-so was not first ballot so Alomar (or whatever current player it is) shouldn't be. Thereby making the same mistake that yesteryear's voters made.
Or..maybe it giving them too much credit to even over analyze their voting? Maybe they plunk darts at a dart board with players' names on it for all I know.
posted by chris2sy at 03:45 PM on January 07, 2010
Saw an article stating that it is undecided what hat Dawson will wear on his plaque. Could there really be any debate?
posted by holden at 10:29 AM on January 08, 2010
I didn't realize it was the Hall making that decision. I thought the players got to decide (if a decision was necessitated).
posted by bender at 10:49 AM on January 08, 2010
There really should be no debate, unless MLB is hoping to erase the history of the Montreal Expos from existence...
Seasons:
Montreal - 11
Chicago - 6
Games:
Montreal - 1443
Chicago - 867
PA:
Montreal - 6138
Chicago - 3520
OPS+:
Montreal - 122
Chicago - 125
Seasons above career average OPS+ (119):
Montreal - 5
Chicago - 3
Listing of 5 best seasons (OPS+):
Montreal 1981 - 157
Montreal 1983 - 141
Chicago 1988 - 137
Montreal 1980 - 136
Chicago 1990 - 135
MVPs won:
Montreal - 0
Chicago - 1
MVP shares:
Montreal - 1.51
Chicago - 0.85
posted by grum@work at 10:50 AM on January 08, 2010
Hold up. He's a HOF, but he's not anywhere near the greatest 2nd baseman....I'd list Alomar as a "top 5 of all time" (with my Blue Jays bias)
It's one man's opinion but IMO, he is the greatest 2nd baseman to ever play the game (with my Puerto Rican bais).
posted by BornIcon at 10:52 AM on January 08, 2010
unless MLB is hoping to erase the history of the Montreal Expos from existence...
The Carter and Dawson plaques will be placed in an obstructed view section with a blanket over them...
posted by chris2sy at 11:17 AM on January 08, 2010
Here's the article about what team Dawson will be affiliated with in the Hall. My understanding is that the general principle is that Hall has final say, as it does not want players signing contracts stating that they will elect to go into the Hall with a particular team (I recall some discussion of this years ago in connection with Wade Boggs and the Devil Rays -- on edit). And also, Mr. Hall of Fame President, "impactful" is not a word.
posted by holden at 11:34 AM on January 08, 2010
grum, I think you're forgetting a little something, namely 1993-94. Obviously he goes in with a Boston cap.
I didn't realize it was the Hall making that decision. I thought the players got to decide
They changed the rule when Wade Boggs tried to sell his decision to the highest bidder.
It's one man's opinion but IMO, he is the greatest 2nd baseman to ever play the game
Ok, so defend your opinion. That's the point of having one, right? My opinion is Scott Fletcher is the greatest second baseman of all time for having managed to not look completely useless while playing on two horrible Red Sox teams in the early '90s. Hustle. Grit. Short guy. He was David Eckstein in spades. Or spats. Depending on the event.
posted by yerfatma at 01:29 PM on January 08, 2010
grum, I think you're forgetting a little something, namely 1993-94. Obviously he goes in with a Boston cap.
It's amazing what I've forgotten about certain players that were on the ballot this year:
Dawson played for Boston for two seasons.
Morris finished his career in Cleveland.
Alomar played for Arizona.
Blyleven played for Texas.
Raines played for Oakland.
posted by grum@work at 01:39 PM on January 08, 2010
About Dawson's choice of chapeau, this is from Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe. I really don't think it's too likely, though.
posted by Howard_T at 05:34 PM on January 08, 2010
Interestingly, when I first viewed it, that entire post was struck though, which is how all of Cafardo's writing should be presented.
posted by yerfatma at 09:49 AM on January 09, 2010
The fact that Alomar didn't get in on the first ballot is criminal.
I thought that Blyleven would squeak in this year, but I guess it'll take a 14th try. I'm also disheartened by the lack of support for Tim Raines (though it grows) and especially Barry Larkin.
With idiots like Mariotti out there still allowed to vote, it's hard to take the HOF voting process that serious any more.