11/05/24
September 23, 2009
Bobby Cox to step down after 2010.: Atlanta Braves manager Bobby Cox has decided to leave the dugout after 2010. He is currently fourth in all time wins as a manager and one of only 2 to have six 100 win seasons. Hope the Braves can find someone as dedicated to the team as Bobby but possibly with some new ideas. Any thoughts on prospects?
posted by stalnakerz to baseball at 04:45 PM - 4 comments
But in general, to have had that much talent and been so close to the prize for so many years and to only have one title to show for it - I have no idea how he has remained employed in Atlanta for so long.
What "talent?" He had three very-good-to-great starters (Maddux was always great, the other two waffled between from year to year) and Chipper Jones. What is this wealth of talent he supposedly had? He routinely had terrible hitting middle-infielders, league-average corner outfielders, and a rag-tag bullpen that he patched together himself.
The question isn't "How did Cox lose so often with all that talent?" It's "How did Cox win so consistently with such mediocre players?"
posted by EnglishSpin at 10:49 PM on September 23, 2009
How could Schuerholz be such a good judge of player talent
You give Schuerholz WAY too much credit. Jermain Dye, Grissom, Justice, JD Drew, Adam Wainwright, Ryan Klesko....there's a lot of bad exchanges in there.
Let's not forget the $ he was working with during most of that stretch
Year W% % > Lg. Mean Payroll Payroll Rank
1993 64.20% 29.19% 4
1994 59.65% 49.24% 1
1995 62.50% 38.82% 3
1996 59.26% 45.32% 3
1997 62.35% 29.78% 6
1998 65.43% 43.66% 3
1999 63.58% 46.79% 5
2000 58.64% 52.25% 3
2001 54.32% 40.52% 6
2002 63.13% 37.63% 7
2003 62.35% 49.51% 3
Regarding Cox's inability to win championships...I just never have been sold on that. In baseball, more than any sport, the "best" team doesn't always win. You can have a team that is lights-out all year, wins 100+ games, and if 1 or 2 players bats get cold in October, they have a 1st round exit. Or get a hold of a team with 2 dominant starters and they can take a 5 game set (ahhhh... Arizona).
posted by bdaddy at 11:56 PM on September 23, 2009
Championships or not, their string of NL East titles is very impressive. In baseball, more than any other sport, just making the playoffs is a significant accomplishment.
posted by bender at 07:26 AM on September 24, 2009
The flames of Hades will likely roast me from head to toe on this but I have long felt that Cox was vastly overrated as a manager. He ran that club for far too long. He should have been gone in 1997 or 1998, IMO.
Year after year, Schuerholz would put a high quality team on the field and Cox would find a way to not bring them home.
Cox's teams developed characteristic traits that were predictable and habitual. You could go to Vegas on them. Smoke the league in the regular season and fall down in the post season.
Some of their playoff series' after their historic momentum reversal and unraveling in the 1996 World Series with NY were downright embarrassments.
Their 1991 Series was a classic, but I still felt that Cox didn't manage as effectively as he could have in that Series.
I'll give him full credit for his team hanging tough and coming out on top in 1991 and 1992 against the Pirates in the NLCS. That was huge. Those were momentous pitched battles.
But in general, to have had that much talent and been so close to the prize for so many years and to only have one title to show for it - I have no idea how he has remained employed in Atlanta for so long.
It doesn't help that when they show him on TV, half the time he looks like a clueless Sheriff of Mayberry sitting there in the dugout. Them vacant blinking beady eyes. Like being at a Ronald Reagan press conference where someone asks a non-scripted question.
Maybe the real question is: How could Schuerholz be such a good judge of player talent and be so willing to suffer eternally with ordinary managerial talent? He couldn't have been blind to Cox's shortcomings. Schuerholz must have known that he could have and should have done better.