11/05/24
February 09, 2009
Oh No, You Di'int!: Alex Rodriguez admits to steroid use. Your move, Selig.
That is true. However, I think that A-Rod made the right move here. Obviously denying that he ever did steroids would be a fruitless endeavor, but he still could have kept quiet. Whether this will make matters better or worse I'm not sure, but I respect him for at least acknowledging it now.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 10:33 PM on February 09, 2009
Whether this will make matters better or worse I'm not sure, but I respect him for at least acknowledging it now.
I'm not sure I can agree. He lied and then told the truth when he got caught red-handed. There's no ethical positive here, other than being a liar and a cheat who eventually told the truth.
posted by dfleming at 10:34 PM on February 09, 2009
He lied and then told the truth when he got caught red-handed. There's no ethical positive here, other than being a liar and a cheat who eventually told the truth.
We've reached the point where even when all evidence points to guilt, where further denials would make the player look like an idiot and the only rational thing to do is finally admit it, credit is given for being 'honest'. Or what I said in the previous thread.
It's like the little kid that has cookie crumbs all over his mouth and the package in his pocket and admits he ate 'em before dinner. Except we're talking adults here.
posted by justgary at 11:11 PM on February 09, 2009
In a long list of bad moves he could have made from his position, this may have been the best of those bad moves.
posted by boredom_08 at 11:15 PM on February 09, 2009
People and the media are always so fair and understanding with A-Rod in the past, I don't know why he ever would have hesitated to come clean with this issue!
posted by dyams at 06:30 AM on February 10, 2009
Well, consider this: PEOPLE HATE A-ROD FOR WHATEVER REASON!!! I don't know if because he is the highest paid baseball player or that he's young & goodlooking, who knows? The fact is though, people hate A-Rod for any and every reason possible. Even Yankees fans hate on him and he plays for their team!
posted by BornIcon at 08:47 AM on February 10, 2009
Right, it's a vast global conspiracy and the kid's done no wrong.
Do we need two threads for this?
posted by yerfatma at 09:39 AM on February 10, 2009
WOW! Someone lied about committing a wrongdoing. Who'da thunk. If only people who never lied about anything in their lives were allowed to comment on SpoFi, there would be no SpoFi. Believe me, anyone who says he or she has never lied - IS LYING. As someone higher up the food chain than me once said - LET HE WHO HAS NOT SINNED CAST THE FIRST STONE.
posted by pullmyfinger at 10:22 AM on February 10, 2009
Except my lying doesn't potentially affect millions of fans' trust in the game and cost other athletes millions of dollars through enhanced performance. Apples and oranges.
posted by jmd82 at 10:32 AM on February 10, 2009
So where are all the comments Bonds and Clements got about being horrible people and liars that should be thrown out of the game and records removed.
Is a-roid clear because he confessed after he was caught? Does he get a free pass since he is clean cut and talked to peter gammons and made it all ok.
I mean he said he hasn't done it since 2003. Do we just choose to believe that? Why does this guy get a free pass. Someone explain that to me. If this post was about Bonds and Clements, ther would be 75 comments by now. My hope, everyone is just tired of talking about it or since he admitted "ALL" we have nothing else to say? I am disappointed in the SpoFi crowd here.
posted by Debo270 at 11:27 AM on February 10, 2009
guess i missed the post 2 days ago. sorry about that.
posted by Debo270 at 12:47 PM on February 10, 2009
If this post was about Bonds and Clements, ther would be 75 comments by now...I am disappointed in the SpoFi crowd here
Considering that this is actually the 2nd post about the A-Rod situation, I'm disappointed that you didn't see the other post. What is wrong with you?!!? that was a joke..relax!
I'm not going to compare A-Rod to Bonds or Clemens since A-Rod didn't speak to congress or government agents about his steriod use. A-Rod admitted, although after the fact, that he took a banned substance. What more does anyone out in the public deserve to hear from him?
posted by BornIcon at 01:37 PM on February 10, 2009
BI,
I apologize for my overall level of incompetence and beg forgiveness. I had not taken my SpoFi enhancing drugs before posting my comments.
posted by Debo270 at 02:01 PM on February 10, 2009
It's ok Debo, I understand. I'm going thru withdrawl myself so as long as I have my designated back pimple poppers and hairline resurrections, we're all good.
Damn 'roid rage is a bitch tho!
posted by BornIcon at 03:17 PM on February 10, 2009
I'm waiting for the post now about Miguel Tejada and what a liar and cheat he is. He could go to prison for lying to Congress and still not be trashed like A-Rod. No, it's not a "conspiracy" like someone mentioned above, but it's still a bit ridiculous. Like BornIcon said, the guy is rich, good-looking, and a Yankee, and it's just not baseball in the 2000s without having something to pile on the guy about. This crap about selectively allowing only certain names on the list of players who tested positive for banned substances is a fucking joke. It's gone this far, so every single name on that list should be released. I'm sure many people would be shocked and surprised.
posted by dyams at 07:56 PM on February 10, 2009
This is gonna be a long so if there is a point to this novel of a post its that we need to stop being so reactionary about this topic because it us way more complicated than steroids=wrong. I have refrained from posting on this topic for a long time because I felt that there were only a few players using and the ones that had so much incriminating evidence pointing towards them were given a free pass (until they possibly lied in front of Congress) This topic is so all over the place so so is my comment.
I fail to see how the story of one baseball player (even of the caliber of Alex Rodriguez) is breaking news. I believe that there were 104 and other players who tested positive. If you believe that only those players are the ones using you have about 1 in 12 using steroids. I am basing this off of a 40 man roster per team they percentage would obviously get higher if you just went the 25 man roster. If you live in the real and believe that more than those 104 use who knows how high that percentage can go. Why they haven't looked into pitchers using I'll never understand, I believe that they would have more to gain from steroids. To me the real story is that 104 players tested positive, how many more have or will if tougher testing policies are implemented.
I under stand why some people are upset about this. No one wants to see the sport they have played and enjoyed since childhood tainted with steroids, HGH or whatever else they use to gain an edge (which I personally believe is a small one) I still believe that the cream of the crop (like the Bondses and Rodrigi, and Clemens and McGuire) will always be amazing players and the PEDs just gave them that little extra push to take them from all time greats to Legendary. All this nonsense about changing records or what will happen if A-Rod passes Bonds is just foolish, who knows how many pitchers they hit home runs off of were on the gas? Like it or not this is a part of the game now. All you are doing by wondering who's on it and who isn't is just going to ruin your enjoyment of the game.
Back in 2004 I was pretty upset with the state of baseball. I felt someone like Bonds who had clout because he was pulling in so much more revenue could use PEDs and the MLB officials would just turn a blind towards. Here in 2009 it is more apparent that PEDs are much more widespread that was initially thought. I think baseball is unfairly singled out because this is a problem that transcends baseball and effects all areas of sports.
Morally I have a hard time understanding how to feel all about this. I know steroids are illegal but I am a firm believer in "my body my choice" No matter how harmful something is for you no one has a right to say what you are doing is illegal. My problem arises when the MLB decides to say what drugs or supplements use and if you brake our rules we can fine, suspend or terminate you. Where do their rights as an employer end when it comes to what you put into your body? Why should something that improves your performance be viewed as a bad thing even when it has its side effects? If there was a drug that made computer programmers program faster or better but had side effects would Computer Associates or Microsoft not want their employees to take it even if it had potentially harmful side effects? So long as no one is being forced or coerced into something they don't want to take what is the problem with wanting to be the best in your particular field? Should I feel be bad about posting this long pointless comment with so many hypothetical situations that could never be answered?
posted by HATER 187 at 12:40 AM on February 11, 2009
Alex Rodriguez's response when Gammons reminded him when he denied using steroids on a 60 Minutes 2007 interview: "at the time, Peter, I wasn't even being truthful with myself. How am I going to be truthful with Katie (Couric) or CBS?" That answer is straight from the Oprah guest handbook. Students of PR should be made to study this interview for years. Selig has nothing to worry about. The focus will be on how Rodriguez handled this PR crisis, not Selig's response to it.
posted by Newbie Walker at 02:31 AM on February 11, 2009
Joe Posnanski has an interesting take. He doesn't condemn A-Rod for using PEDs, but does for the interview:
I thought Alex Rodriguez's "apology" was one of the most absurd shams of recent memory. I thought it was so pathetic that, for the first time, that "A-Fraud" moniker finally made some sense to me. As a baseball fan, I wasn't mad at A-Rod when the steroid story broke. As a baseball fan, I was furious at A-Rod when he and his handlers put together this infomercial apology.* I hope the children weren't watching THAT.
Look, I never blame anyone for doing what they have to do to minimize damage. But that doesn't mean anyone should buy it. Do I think Alex Rodriguez is lying? You bet I do. The guy talks about being completely honest and he cannot remember what drugs he used? He doesn't really know where he got them? He stopped because of some St. Paul like conversion he had with a neck injury in an Arizona bed? That story is so prepackaged it should come with your pack of Ho Hos. And look: I'm a sucker for prepackaged stories, melodramatic movies, sad songs and diamond commercials. I bought the TurboCooker. But I didn't buy one word of it.
----------------
I'm waiting for the post now about Miguel Tejada and what a liar and cheat he is.
That's not really a fair comparison. Tejada has a long history with this topic. This isn't something new. When it first came out Tejada had used steroids it was mentioned in a post on sportsfilter.
A better comparison would be someone like David Ortiz. What if it came out he admitted to PEDs tomorrow. You don't think it would be covered everywhere?
If A-Rod hits 3 home runs in a game, and Tejada does the same, guess who gets the most attention? I don't get the complaining. A-Rod, being the highest paid player on the team with the highest payroll and biggest following will get more attention than a decent shortstop on the Astros, no matter what he does, good or bad. You can't have the yin and avoid the yang.
posted by justgary at 04:08 AM on February 11, 2009
I think HATER said it best. Even if the 104 names are accurate and the total of all players, that means a significant- 1 in 12 or more- number of players were using PEDs. The era is "tainted", not just individual players, so bagging on people like A-Rod or Bonds is pointless. They shone even in an era where plenty of players were recovering a little faster than without PEDs, etc. They hit those homeruns against pitchers who were juicing, won batting titles against plenty of other hitters who were juicing, and really it's pointless to get in a tizzy about PEDs. Even people you think weren't juicing- like Pedro Martinez, a tiny guy who put up insane numbers against hitters who were juicing- might have been juicing; we just don't know about it yet. After all, the guy went from possibly one of the greatest pitchers of all time to a guy whose body and arm break down every season... right around the time they implemented more thorough and "anonymous" testing. PEDs may help pitchers as much or more, if they help them recover from wear and tear building up over the season.
PEDs should be legal, or at least outside of the purview of the sports management and the jackhole sportswriters. This is their profession, and a lucrative one, and it's only some misguided pastoral sense of purity that makes us think that PEDs are unfair, but weight rooms, LASIK, scientific medicine and kinetic/physiological analysis are totally legit. Why is eating refined protein powder okay, but the Clear is not? Neither are particularly natural. Food itself is a performance enhancing drug. They take risks with their body just stepping into the batter's box, or diving into the crowd to catch a foul ball, or using their chest to stop a laser beam line drive down the 3rd base line.
PEDs do not in my mind taint any records, any more than not having black players on the field for the first half of the sports' history taints records, any more than Hank Aaron or Mickey Mantle gobbling up greenies taints their records, any more than Bob Gibson's ERA on a 15" mound, any more than Sandy Koufax taking prescribed steroids to help his joints and extending his career into the HoF, any more than unneeded elbow guards or larger gloves or maple bats. It's part of the playing field, and players adapt. Every player, juiced or otherwise, is accomplishing what they accomplish in a level playing field for their era.
I for one think Barry Bonds is the 100% legit single-season and all-time homerun king, and possibly the best hitter of all time- until either A-Rod or Pujols or someone we haven't heard of yet starts breaking his records. And I hate that Selig and the self-absorbed putzes of the sportswriting world are going to rob of us of seeing Bonds or others finish out their careers.
posted by hincandenza at 04:19 PM on February 11, 2009
You can't have the yin and avoid the yang
Agreed. Ying Mafia just doesn't have the same ring to it.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 06:33 PM on February 11, 2009
Agreed. Ying Mafia just doesn't have the same ring to it.
I knew that was coming...
posted by justgary at 08:13 PM on February 11, 2009
I think HATER said it best. Even if the 104 names are accurate and the total of all players, that means a significant- 1 in 12 or more- number of players were using PEDs. The sample size was only 700 or so. So we are talking 1 in 7, and we already know of multiple league MVPs and record holders, so I am going to guess that most of the 104 were starters or top level talent. It would be nice to know who wasn't taking them so that we can see if anyone was putting up big numbers in spite of playing against all these 'roided out morons. Then they should get a "fast-pass" into the HOF. Does anyone even know how long steroids have been around? Shit, for all we know Babe Ruth, Roger Maris, Mickey Mantle, Joe DiMaggio, all could have been on the stuff. After all, baseball didn't start testing people until 2004, right? There are no tests prior to the one that A-Rod got busted on, so how will we ever know who did and who didn't? Was Nolan Ryan on the 'roids? Clemens is the only person who has come within a universe of his K record and we all know how he got there... This could go on and on and on....
posted by docshredder at 08:26 PM on February 11, 2009
Apparently Selig is considering reinstating Hank Aaron as home run champ and suspending A-Rod.
It's certainly unprecedented that a person's achievements are stricken from the record books, isn't it? Pete Rose's hit total stood despite his ban from the game. Also, A-Rod committed these offenses before they were illegal.
It turns out, old Bud's planning on going out swinging...
posted by dfleming at 03:20 PM on February 12, 2009
Apparently Selig is considering reinstating Hank Aaron as home run champ and suspending A-Rod.
This is what is wrong with the entire steroid issue as it pertains to baseball. All major league baseball cares about is it's sacred individual records. What they should really be concerned with, as Roy Oswalt pointed out in an interview, is how these players have impacted actual wins and losses. Oswalt mentioned how specific hits or RBIs by some of these players may have cost him and other pitchers certain wins, which may alter playoff races, which may actually wind up costing clean players money, in the long run. I agree with Oswalt on that point, but I also have no sympathy for the majority of major league players because they have been the ones turning a blind eye to this problem for so long. If it's such a huge issue to them now, where were they in the past several years when they could have been ratting out these players?
As for Selig considering suspending A-Rod? Shut the fuck up, Bud. You're a jackass. You never wanted to do anything about this problem in the past, just as nobody else involved with the game did either, and now you're going to make your mark by suspending Rodriguez? If he has any intentions of doing this, then the other players on this list who tested positive, and are still playing, need to have their names published and serve suspensions also. Please, baseball, just move on.
posted by dyams at 05:44 PM on February 12, 2009
Selig says A-Rod "shamed the game". Well, so did over 100 other players who are, you know, on the list.
Let's take this to its logical conclusion. I think its safe to assume that at least one of those 100 players was on a team that won the World Series. Furthermore, I think our theoretical player at least was partially responsible for the team making it to and winning the World Series.
Logically, if we are invalidating achievements, that World Series win was "tainted goods" and should also be invalidated.
Since we don't know which players and teams benefited from steroids (and, barring another leak, we won't), we can't be certain that *any* World Series victory in the steroid era has been legitimate. I would argue that the only way to be certain that none of those victories were tainted would be to officially invalidate every World Series since the steroid era started.
This would have the added bonus, for a Red Sox fan like myself, of putting us back in the "haven't won a World Series in like a million years" frame of mind that we prefer to be in. It also would allow us to blame the Yankees for robbing us of our World Series victories, which is also an opinion we like to express.
I digress.
Since there are over 100 players that have used steroid, and we can't be certain that they've all retired, any player we watch could, theoretically, be shaming the game and deserving of having all of their achievements struck from the record books.
Really, the only way to be certain that the game is not being shamed (short of releasing the names on the list and firing them specifically), and I'm sure you'll agree with me on this, is to immediately fire every person player major league baseball.
These tainted players would be replaced exclusively by players that could demonstrate, through drug tests that have been administered since their youth, that they were 100% steroid free. Any player who could not conclusively prove that they never even once used steroids would be denied the chance to play professional baseball.
Furthermore, in the interest of protecting the game, I think it would be wise to closely study the histories of baseball players of all eras and removing their records if there was even a shred of evidence that they might have used some sort of performance enhancer - like 'Red Juice,' 'Greenies' or other amphetamines.
Only once we've expelled these potentially tainted players and scrubbed the record books clean of any record that might have been effected by any performance enhancer will be able to put this national nightmare behind us.
/Jonathan Swift
posted by Joey Michaels at 06:01 PM on February 12, 2009
This would have the added bonus, for a Red Sox fan like myself, of putting us back in the "haven't won a World Series in like a million years" frame of mind that we prefer to be in. It also would allow us to blame the Yankees for robbing us of our World Series victories, which is also an opinion we like to express.
Speak for yourself, chief.
posted by jerseygirl at 08:23 PM on February 12, 2009
This would have the added bonus, for a Red Sox fan like myself, of putting us back in the "haven't won a World Series in like a million years" frame of mind that we prefer to be in. It also would allow us to blame the Yankees for robbing us of our World Series victories, which is also an opinion we like to express.
Myself = I. I don't know this 'we' you're talking about
posted by justgary at 08:47 PM on February 12, 2009
posted by Joey Michaels at 09:48 PM on February 12, 2009
Selig astounds me with his failure to take any blame for these problems. His complete and utter willingness to see this as anything but the failing of certain players is mind-blowing. Selig has shamed the game much more than A-Rod.
posted by bperk at 10:12 AM on February 13, 2009
Selig astounds me with his failure to take any blame for these problems. His complete and utter willingness to see this as anything but the failing of certain players is mind-blowing. Selig has shamed the game much more than A-Rod.
I couldn't agree more. A-Rod shamed the game? How about Selig, MLB and the team owners shaming the game by turning a blind eye to steroid use for 10-15 years?
Now, when it's an issue, it's all about the players, and not at all about the culture of steroid use and the what me worry attitude of MLB.
If Selig wants to find someone to be ashamed of, he should just look in the mirror.
posted by cjets at 03:11 PM on February 13, 2009
Why single out A-Rod?....by.....a columnist in Boston?
posted by dyams at 10:07 AM on February 14, 2009
After all, the guy went from possibly one of the greatest pitchers of all time to a guy whose body and arm break down every season...
Pedro's career sure sounds like a carbon copy of Sandy Koufax's career. Both were guys that weren't huge in stature but the moment they both stepped on the pitcher's mound, they were giants in their sport.
posted by BornIcon at 12:12 PM on February 16, 2009
From the article: Rodriguez's admission was in stark contrast to the denials of Bonds and of Clemens, Rodriguez's Yankees teammate.
What about the Katie Couric interview? ARod put some pretty heavy denials there.