11/05/24
January 12, 2009
Quiet Strength ... : The only NFL player since the AFL-NFL merger to intercept a pass and throw an interception in the same game—as well as the first NFL coach to defeat all 32 teams—has retired.
Class act. Great coach, but an even better man.
posted by txsoccermom at 05:57 PM on January 12, 2009
The football world will miss him. I know that my Gophers and Vikings were both better due to his presence.
Good luck to him!
posted by dviking at 06:13 PM on January 12, 2009
One great player and coach.Football will miss one of the best soft spoken men to ever be involved in the sport. May he enjoy the rest of his life as much as he enjoyed football.
posted by Doehead at 06:25 PM on January 12, 2009
Hopefully he's someone who can step away and ignore the temptation to return when all the offers eventually start flowing his way. Seems like a nice guy and I hope he finds a fulfilling life away from football. I truly believe he can serve in other areas and make a much more necessary impact than the one he had on a game played by grown, well-paid men.
posted by dyams at 06:33 PM on January 12, 2009
An excellent coach, who will be missed by many. He can also write a mean book. Good luck in all endeavours, Mr. Dungy, and thanks for all you've done to the Bucs, Colts and the game of football itself.
posted by Goyoucolts at 09:10 PM on January 12, 2009
Class act. Great coach, but an even better man.
And a homophobe.
posted by tommybiden at 11:27 PM on January 12, 2009
I personally avoided the non-sports related portions of this story, tommytrump. Believe me when I say I do NOT support many (or any) of his non-football beliefs. But he was a great coach, and this post was intended to focus on what he did for the game of football. If others want to post another thread, or a column, to discuss other facets of the man, they are free to do so; but I'd like to request that we keep this thread on topic. Thank you.
posted by scully at 07:44 AM on January 13, 2009
Terrapin, all I did was respond to other comments. I don't believe I took anything off topic.
txsoccermom: ".....but an even better man."
Dyams: ".......I truly believe he can serve in other areas and make a much more necessary impact than he had on a game....."
I understand Tony Dungy was a fine football coach, but since others had alluded to his decency and his leadership abilities, I felt it appropriate to point out that the man is perhaps somewhat less than an icon of virtue.
posted by tommybiden at 09:27 AM on January 13, 2009
Fair enough. I attributed those comments as allusions to the coaching style he had, which was more of a teacher than a yell-at-you-until-you-fear-for-your-job method. If I worked for the man, I would probably be the first in line to complain that he made non-Christians like myself uncomfortable, but for the sake of this thread I was trying to take a different path.
Carry on :)
posted by scully at 10:19 AM on January 13, 2009
so terrapin, basically you were turning the other cheek?
posted by apoch at 12:57 PM on January 13, 2009
I felt it appropriate to point out that the man is perhaps somewhat less than an icon of virtue.
As usual, one man's virtue is another's vice.
posted by jmd82 at 02:31 PM on January 13, 2009
...but since others had alluded to his decency and his leadership abilities, I felt it appropriate to point out that the man is perhaps somewhat less than an icon of virtue.
You didn't point out crap. You called him "a homophobe." Looked more like you just felt like throwing out a troll worthy comment. I guess there will be no more compliments to the man because you disagree with his religious beliefs or you want to push your definition of virtue.
I attributed those comments as allusions to the coaching style he had, which was more of a teacher than a yell-at-you-until-you-fear-for-your-job method. If I worked for the man, I would probably be the first in line to complain that he made non-Christians like myself uncomfortable, but for the sake of this thread I was trying to take a different path.
Carry on :)
The article you linked to, as well as others I've read about his retirement almost always end up focusing on what a great man his peers believe him to be. With all due respect, just because other comments in this thread echoed the numerous opinions of those who worked with the man or for the man, I don't feel that "carrying on" with calling this man names based on his religion is what you intended as the topic. None of the articles or the comments either reference or applaud any homophobic comments or actions. So I believe you said it almost perfectly the first time:
I personally avoided the non-sports related portions of this story, tommytrump. Believe me when I say I do NOT support many (or any) of his non-football beliefs. But he was a great coach, and this post was intended to focus on what he did for the game of football. If others want to post another thread, or a column, to discuss other facets of the man, they are free to do so; but I'd like to request that we keep this thread on topic. Thank you.
posted by tselson at 01:02 AM on January 14, 2009
Thanks for the support and the scolding, tselson ;)
By carry on, I was also indicating that tommytrump could give himself enough rope to hang himself, and that I wasn't going to police the thread. I said what I had to say. As a boy, and avid Steelers' fan, I admired him as a player, and as an adult I admired what he was able to get from his players without being a dick (I won't name names). But I have also changed the channel when he showed up on the screen at Billy Graham revivals because that is not my thing. I feel that one can express their disagreement with a person without being disagreeable.
I returned to add this link to Blog 'n' Gold post.
posted by scully at 10:55 AM on January 14, 2009
Calling Tony Dungy a "homophobe" without explaining the remark is a cheap shot. But any time a figure is lionized like Dungy has been, it opens the floor to people who don't share that opinion. Nobody talks about Dungy without praising his off-the-field conduct to high heaven.
posted by rcade at 10:55 AM on January 14, 2009
I have no interest in "trolling", nor in ''carrying on.''
I simply stated what was my opinion, I thought since others were expressing their opinion that I was entitled in the same fashion to express mine. I guess I was wrong. I did not see any explanation of how Tony Dungy was a great man, any documentation of that. Why would I be held to a higher standard simply because I am not praising the man? Would it be because I am holding an opinion that is less popular? I don't see how calling him a homophobe is a cheap shot any more than empty praise makes him a great man.
posted by tommybiden at 12:01 PM on January 14, 2009
I don't see how calling him a homophobe is a cheap shot any more than empty praise makes him a great man.
Calling him a gay hater is polarizing. If you're going to make that argument, I think you should explain why you feel that way instead of making people guess.
I agree with you that criticism is acceptable -- Dungy's leaving what I expect to be his last high-profile job in sports, so it's a good time to assess him pro and con. But simply dismissing him as a homophobe doesn't tell anybody anything.
posted by rcade at 12:34 PM on January 14, 2009
I believe that Tony Dungy is a great coach and a good man.
But TT's comments were correct. And Dungy uses his status as a well known and well respected football coach to condemn gay marriage.
He also says that if he had a gay player, he would tell him what the bible says.
The fact that Dungy does and this publicly and uses his bully pulpit to support homophobic organizations is noteworthy and worth discussion.
To some of us, Dungy's views are no different than people who wanted to outlaw interracial marriage. And I wonder what spofites would say about a coach who agreed with that.
posted by cjets at 01:53 PM on January 14, 2009
"is noteworthy and worth discussion."
That was rcade's point. A one-line throw-away comment is not the same as discussion. It is tantamount to throwing gas on a fire. And we have seen that, since it was suggested for people to discuss their opinions rationally that they are more helpful than simply calling someone names.
I don't agree that tommytrump was being silenced in anyway though, so his comments above where he paints himself as a victim are silly. No one has deleted his comments, and in fact he has been asked to speak more rather than less.
Dungy is entitled to his beliefs and opinions not matter how wrong he is—and he is wrong on his opinions outside of football. To say that because he has more access to the media means that he has an unfair advantage is incorrect, in my opinion. We have a website where we are expressing our opinions as well. These comments will now be indexed by websites and they will live on.
He is welcome to tell a gay player what the bible says. What is not allowed to do is punish the player at his place of work. If that has happened, it is up to the player to speak up, just as in any other work place.
The fact that Dungy does and [sic] this publicly and uses his bully pulpit to support homophobic organizations is noteworthy and worth discussion.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but in mine it is rude to speak of the dead or protest at a funeral, etc. Which is why I encouraged tommytrump, and others, to write their own column here if they wish to express their opinions. My thread was to pay tribute to a player and coach who has done an excellent job in that field. Your may be to point out the sad out-dated homophobic state of the NFL, or sports in general. And I would love to read such a column, and I support anyone who writes it. I can't force anyone to comment the way I have asked, I can only suggest that they not pee in the pool and then complain that the water smells funny.
I'm done with my comments and this thread, and I look forward to a column or thread about sports and its treatment of LGBT people.
posted by scully at 02:20 PM on January 14, 2009
He also says that if he had a gay player, he would tell him what the bible says.
That's what I was fishing for.
Man is that wrongheaded. The odds are pretty high that Dungy's had some gay players in his employ, but they hid their sexuality for fear of reactions like his.
If it's OK for Dungy to proselytize his players for being gay, is it OK for him to educate Jews? Muslims? Interracial couples? Wouldn't it be easier to live and let live? I'm not aware of a single offensive or defensive scheme in pro football that's affected by gayness. Maybe short-yardage situations or at the bottom of a fumble pile.
posted by rcade at 02:33 PM on January 14, 2009
Maybe short-yardage situations or at the bottom of a fumble pile.
I can't believe it, but I am missing the flagging feature from the stop-gap version of SpoFi now. I would flag that as outstanding and hilarious.
posted by scully at 02:42 PM on January 14, 2009
To say that because he has more access to the media means that he has an unfair advantage is incorrect, in my opinion. We have a website where we are expressing our opinions as well. These comments will now be indexed by websites and they will live on.
I couldn't disagree more. Dungy's comments are all over the news and he has used his fame to promote this agenda.
You and I are free to use the internet but do you really think that we have 1/1000, even 1/100000 the reach and influence that Dungy has?
If he wants to use his reach and influence to condemn gay marriage, it's certainly fair game to criticize him for it.
posted by cjets at 02:43 PM on January 14, 2009
You and I are free to use the internet but do you really think that we have 1/1000, even 1/100000 the reach and influence that Dungy has?
We only fail if we don't try. Feel strongly about it? Write a column. Write a letter to an editor in your local paper; or send one to the NY Times or the Washington Post, or any other large paper. Don't feel strong enough to do something? Then, well, I can't help you.
posted by scully at 03:13 PM on January 14, 2009
I live in CA and I've done plenty and will continue to do plenty for the No on 8 campaign as well as the campaign to make gay marriage constitutional.
But the reality is that Dungy can do much more because of who he is. That doesn't mean I don't try. It is simply recognizing the reality of the situation.
And part of my doing something is try make reasonable criticism when it is warranted. And it is warranted here. I kept the criticism reasonable, even praised the man, and backed it up. He used his stature as a football coach to press a bigoted hateful agenda.
That makes it fair game in any discussion of him.
And all you can say is write a column? Why don't you write a column? That way none of us can come and ruin your celebration.
But if you create an FPP, then be prepared for differing opinions.
posted by cjets at 03:46 PM on January 14, 2009
cjets linked the information that I would have, had I been back to SpoFi earlier, and able to take the time. Thank you for that, cjets.
I offered about the same amount of detail in my original post as the members who had posted before me had expressed, in their positive comments toward Mr. Dungy. Because I held a contrary view to, amongst others, tselson, he felt the need to let me know I hadn't pointed out crap and he wrote that I was making troll worthy comments.
Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.
All I was trying to do with my original comment was to help complete a more accurate picture of the man. I'll repeat myself here, and state that he's hardly a icon of virtue.
For those of you who wish to bow at the altar of St. Tony of Dungy, go ahead.
I'll look to better men (and women) to admire and respect.
posted by tommybiden at 04:39 PM on January 14, 2009
All I was trying to do with my original comment was to help complete a more accurate picture of the man. I'll repeat myself here, and state that he's hardly a icon of virtue.
No tommy, not in my opinion. One line put downs don't help complete an accurate picture. You were trying to paint a picture of the man that fits your opinion. You and I disagree on what an icon of virtue is. If you didn't see "any documentation," or ""explanation," of Coach Dungy being a well respected and admired man, you didn't even read the link. You can look to whomever you want to admire and respect, I'll try not to shit upon them and change your mind.
Terrapin, you've posted an excellent sports topic. I'm sorry if I made you feel as though you should police the thread. Certainly not your job nor is it mine. I couldn't agree more with your position on this thread or on Mr. Dungy, the player and the coach.
Also, if others wish this thread to devolve into arguing over gay rights or whether or not a man can use his "bully pulpit," to share his beliefs, I wouldn't want to ruin their use of this public pulpit to spread their word or ruin their celebration of condemnation. Even if I don't come here to be preached to. Nope, that would be like telling Coach to keep his virtues to himself.
/eats asparagus, pees in the pool, wonders why it smells funny;)
posted by tselson at 12:53 AM on January 15, 2009
I was pointing out a fact. The man is homophobic. I did read the linked article, but thanks for assuming I did not. I provided the same level of documentation and references as other, earlier posters in the thread who were providing empty praise for the man. For some reason I was asked to document my opinion, yet others were not. I'm not here to preach or change anyone's opinion, but to express mine.
Eat asparagus, it's good for you, but try not to pee in the pool. That just ruins everyones day. I may try some brussel sprouts, to each their own.
posted by tommybiden at 11:55 AM on January 15, 2009
Eat asparagus, it's good for you, but try not to pee in the pool. That just ruins everyones day...
Depends on who you ask, someone might actually enjoy that.
posted by BornIcon at 03:44 PM on January 15, 2009
According to Tony Dungy, people who eat asparagus and pee in the pool are going to Hell.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 11:11 PM on January 31, 2009
Nothing on the Colts' official site at this time.