11/21/24
December 14, 2008
Dallas Stars Break Up with Sean Avery: The Dallas Stars have told Sean Avery he'll no longer play for the team now that his suspension is over. "We do care about Sean and want what is best for him," said Brett Hull. "We've agreed to do what we can to help find him a place to play hockey once he addresses his personal issues."
As a Sharks' fan, I wish that Avery would have returned to Dallas. I really enjoyed watching that idiot sink the Stars into last place. Unfortunately, all good things must come to an end. At least that puke never got his name engraved on the Stanley Cup. When Detroit won it in 2002, that bunghole only played 36 games and didn't qualify for The Cup. Even better that year, the greatest left wing of all-time--Luc Robitaille--was able to get his name forever engraved on Lord Stanley's Cup. Now that it appears that Avery's NHL career has come to a pathetic end, I would expect him to start writing his book on being a gay athlete in the NHL. Look for that in about a year or two.
posted by abbeywood at 06:30 AM on December 15, 2008
Now that it appears that Avery's NHL career has come to a pathetic end, I would expect him to start writing his book on being a gay athlete in the NHL. Look for that in about a year or two.
You've made all of three comments here and two have been homophobic at times. Cut it out.
posted by dfleming at 10:40 AM on December 15, 2008
You've made all of three comments here and two have been homophobic at times. Cut it out.
It was pretty humorous.
posted by BornIcon at 10:46 AM on December 15, 2008
As nice as it would be, I don't think his career is over. I'm sure some team will disappoint us all by signing him. So, I think his book will be more than one or two years away.
posted by BoKnows at 10:57 AM on December 15, 2008
As a former Baltimore Orioles fan, I have to applaud the Stars' move. Firing Avery is one of those turning points, like the Orioles' hiring Alber Belle, when a sports team organization shows what it stands for. The risk is great: teams, by tolerating or hiring douchebag recidivists like Avery or Belle, run the risk of alienating and even losing many fans (though ownership may justify this by crowing about their new fans, the ones who care nothing about teams and all about buying championships; as far as I'm concerned, those new fans aren't worth it, but I miss my O's and can't wait for Peter Angelos to die).
Sure, all of that's really tangential and personal, but it's my way of getting a grasp here. The Stars found themselves at a turning point, and did the right thing by firing a repeated embarrassment. They saved fans that way; they saved face, too.
Any team thinking of picking up Avery is potting an albatross.
Anti-gay jokes are stupid, but they're also a sign of deep and abiding curiosity. Just let it out, set yourself free; we understand and support your internal struggle. You'll be happier when you admit it.
posted by Hugh Janus at 11:11 AM on December 15, 2008
You've made all of three comments here and two have been homophobic.
Let's not be too quick to judge, dfleming.
His other comment does show a great deal of man-love for Luc Robitaille.
posted by tommybiden at 11:30 AM on December 15, 2008
Welcome home, Luc Robitaille; there's so much That you missed. I'm old but I need you as much As yesterday, oh, Mr. Robitaille, stay, I threw the others away.
-- Mando Diao, "Welcome Home Luc Robitaille"
posted by Hugh Janus at 01:22 PM on December 15, 2008
Can anyone tell me how what Avery said justifies the actions of the NHL or the Stars? Seriously, I am dumbfounded by the severity of his punishment. Sure, what he said was classless and tasteless...2 words that are usually synonymous with "Sean Avery." That's well established, and the Stars organization had to know that going into signing him. I just cannot wrap my brain around this situation. He didn't injure anyone...hell, he didn't even name anyone. Whether we figured that out on our own is irrelevant. Phaneuf can't even make a case for a slander lawsuit out of the facts of the matter. So why is the hammer dropping so hard? The only logical answer is there is more to this story that we'll likely never hear. Frankly, I side with Avery on this one, and I feel sorry for him...
posted by MeatSaber at 04:21 PM on December 15, 2008
The hammer was a six game suspension. That was the NHL's response to a PR disaster for a sport that wants parents to let their kids go to game.
The Stars' response has entirely to do with the fact he's hated in his own dressing room. He sits by himself, listening to music and not trying to learn how to play their system. They were getting fed up with him anyways and this stunt was ill-timed for someone who wanted to continue playing for them.
Avery isn't being unnecessarily punished; he's an ass, a me-first player and a bad teammate. His "usefulness" on the ice this year was minimal; he knows how to go out an irritate, but if it involves playing a system, he looks lost. He's got an NHL body and an minor league brain and as such, he'll play there next.
posted by dfleming at 05:24 PM on December 15, 2008
Meatsaber, you could try reading the attached article, the Stars do give perspective on their decision.
posted by BoKnows at 05:26 PM on December 15, 2008
Bo,
I did read the article beforehand, and it did absolutely nothing to help my confusion. Give me a break...Modano feels his franchise has been "tarnished?" Dave Tippett was "directly insulted" by his comments?? Anyone want to stand up and tell me that neither of these grown men has heard far worse in the locker room or during a scrum in the corner? And Brett Hull feels "disappointed" and "frustrated?" Avery stayed with him during their time together here in Detroit. Did they never talk? Hully didn't know who they were signing? Puh-lease...
Or, I don't know, maybe the Stars realized that they threw 4 years and $16 mill at a guy who, underneath his mouth and elbows, isn't that good a hockey player...and just waited for the inevitable "Avery being Avery" moment to blow out of proportion, and cut their losses...
I don't know the guy personally, but given his behavior throughout his career, he doesn't look like the kind of guy I'd want to have a beer with. But in a sport where players try to kill their agents, union heads bilk money from the players, and junior coaches molest young players, calling Jack Bauer's daughter your "sloppy seconds" isn't a reason to potentially ruin a guy's career...
posted by MeatSaber at 07:20 PM on December 15, 2008
It is, however, a good way to find oneself tortured and quietly disposed of by a crack team of company men.
posted by Hugh Janus at 07:40 PM on December 15, 2008
The main problem with what he said was who he said it to, meaty. It wasn't locker room banter, he went straight to the media and called some guys out. Attach that low-class act along with all of his others (you can check wiki for yourself) and you get the current outcome. I believe it is as it should be.
posted by BoKnows at 08:04 PM on December 15, 2008
Now see, that I guess I can understand. If Avery skated up to Phaneuf that night and said "hey Dion, [insert crude reference to the flavor of a certain body part]," maybe this never happens. But still, 6 games from the league, and banishment from his team? Hate to be a homer, but is this 3 times worse than Claude Lemeiux's hit on Kris Draper back in 1996?
posted by MeatSaber at 08:19 PM on December 15, 2008
"The Stars' response has entirely to do with the fact he's hated in his own dressing room. He sits by himself, listening to music and not trying to learn how to play their system. They were getting fed up with him anyways and this stunt was ill-timed for someone who wanted to continue playing for them."
So basically they're using the "sloppy seconds" comment as an excuse to cut a guy who didn't work out for them, right? Because that's the only way I can even begin to understand this.
The reaction to this comment from Dallas and the NHL seems like something out of the 1950's. Especially when one considers that Dallas signed him only six months ago knowing full well what they were getting.
And the writer of this article is just as bad comparing him to Michael Richards (who screamed the "N" word) or Mel Gibson (who went on a drunken anti-semitic tirade while being arrested for DUI).
posted by cjets at 08:31 PM on December 15, 2008
It's not a comparison of the level of offense, cjets, rather it's a comparison of completely losing the support of your peers.
And the ruffled feathers between Avery and the locker room didn't just happen because of this incident. SI and ESPN mags have been giving little tidbits since the start of the season. If the guy is hated in the locker room, why would you want to keep him? Should he get a free pass because he's a known asshole? A successful hockey team needs chemistry, and since the signing of Avery, Dallas has had zero chemistry. A change was needed and Avery made it all to easy for Dallas to make that change.
posted by BoKnows at 08:43 PM on December 15, 2008
I'm not saying they should keep him. I'm just saying they shouldn't blame it on this comment and act like he whipped his cock out in front of a TV camera (Slap Shot anyone?).
For the casual sports fan, this comes off as prudish and out of touch with reality. Do you think a bunch of old white men complaining about "sloppy seconds" is going to attract young viewers to the sport?
I wonder what would happen if this was Tony Romo saying this about Jessica or T.O. saying this about....well whoever is unlucky enough to date him.
posted by cjets at 08:54 PM on December 15, 2008
So basically they're using the "sloppy seconds" comment as an excuse to cut a guy who didn't work out for them, right? Because that's the only way I can even begin to understand this.
It's not an excuse; it's another example of a pattern of behavior that the Stars have battled with since he got to Dallas. It's the straw that broke the camel's back, effectively. He showed himself completely unwilling to be part of the team system; he was completely anti-social. This is another example of anti-social behavior; as much as he didn't shoot anyone, he did something which is culturally pretty taboo and it was for absolutely no benefit to anyone.
The Stars are a better team without him. They know this. They'll pay him for their commitment and buy him out at the end of the season. If Avery was concerned with his career, he'd leave his talk to the ice where it won't get him in as much trouble.
Those who think Avery got a raw deal need to remember he's going to be paid for every minute he's off the ice and the Stars are likely willing to let him play for ANYONE who wants him at this point. He's not being blocked by anyone; he's blocked himself from the NHL by being a bad teammate and not having the skills to make up for that fact.
posted by dfleming at 08:54 PM on December 15, 2008
Do you think a bunch of old white men complaining about "sloppy seconds" is going to attract young viewers to the sport?
If the outcome is removing jerk-offs from the league, then it might.
Do you think players using that description of ex-girlfriends will attract young viewers to the sport? What about young women? And if you do, are those the people you want as a fan base?
The NHL (plus a franchise) are taking a stand to gain control of the conduct of their players, which is absolutely more than can be said for the NFL. I hope the NHL continues this trend, both for verbal and physical offenses.
posted by BoKnows at 09:08 PM on December 15, 2008
"Do you think players using that description of ex-girlfriends will attract young viewers to the sport?"
That's not what I said. I said that casual sports fans will be put off by the prudish and puritanical reaction to the comment.
It's a "Get off my lawn" moment for the NHL and the Stars.
posted by cjets at 09:24 PM on December 15, 2008
You can call it prudish, I'll call it class.
posted by BoKnows at 09:30 PM on December 15, 2008
If I'm reading right, the Stars had a problem with Avery as a "team" player. Normally, I assume, the coaching staff or "leaders" in the locker room would sit a player like that down and tell him what's what. If the situation doesn't change, then he gets traded, sent down, or given his outright release. Instead, the Stars waited for Avery to do something, anything, for him to be strung up. And worse, they let the league get involved. That's class? They're not "standing up for their beliefs," they are cowering behind trumped up charges and using that to do their dirty work for them. That's classless AND gutless, which sounds about right for that franchise, given my opinion...
posted by MeatSaber at 09:57 PM on December 15, 2008
The Stars did have a problem with him being a team player, but I don't believe they waited for him to screw up now just to release him. Who knows how many other incidents have been hushed or were just never reported on. This incident was icing on the cake, not the sole reason for his departure. Even before the league handed out any suspensions, the Stars (Hull) had made comments questioning Avery's return, so don't get confused with the order of events here. Plus, the Stars didn't "let" the league get involved, Avery did that on his own. Keep in mind that he went directly to the media with his remarks. In my opinion, that's opening the doors for everyone to get involved, invitation or not.
So, am I right in assuming that you think the Stars should keep him? Why? He's a marginal player, cancer in the locker room, and an all around jerk who's alienated himself from his teammates. If I had made the mistake of signing him, I wouldn't make another mistake by keeping him around now.
BTW, why do you think that classless and gutless describe the Stars? I'm not a Stars fan, but Modano has always been the face of that team and I feel he has carried that team with nothing but class.
posted by BoKnows at 10:54 PM on December 15, 2008
How does a team "let the league get involved," Saber? It's not the Stars' choice whether the NHL took action here, and I think some of your other assumptions are way off base.
Like any team, the Stars would've dealt with Avery internally before airing anything in public. In this case, Avery's the reason this went public, because he's the one who chose to give that interview and make those comments.
posted by rcade at 11:53 PM on December 15, 2008
Personally, I think Hull and Tippett welcomed the chance to utilize Avery as a scapegoat. The Stars are off to a horrible start, and to jettison Avery gives them both some extra time to turn the team around before one, or both, of them is shown the door.
I think that plays into why they seem just fine with paying him his full salary. If they truly felt that he disgraced the team, I don't see why they wouldn't try to get out of paying him.
posted by dviking at 12:50 AM on December 16, 2008
Normally, I assume, the coaching staff or "leaders" in the locker room would sit a player like that down and tell him what's what. If the situation doesn't change, then he gets traded, sent down, or given his outright release.
You make it sound like walking away from a big contract is no big deal and can be done with haste. There are enough teams carrying players who didn't fit the bill to show that it's not as easy as you make it out to be. Who would've traded for his production/dollar this year?
I think the Stars had some hope that he'd buy in eventually but this stunt proved who Sean Avery's first focus is; himself, not the team. It's not "cowardly" to react to having your hand forced.
posted by dfleming at 05:55 AM on December 16, 2008
If the outcome is removing jerk-offs from the league, then it might
In just about every profession, there will always be a jerk-off in that environment and I sure don't just mean professional sports. IMO, what Avery said should have stayed behind closed doors but by no means did he deserve to get kicked off his team for making those comments. A 6-game suspension seemed a bit much and then the Stars turns around and gets rid of him? Com'on man!! Why isn't the players union up at arms about Avery being dismissed for his remark? He didn't purposely injure another player nor did he say anyone by name.
I agree that he did not need to go there but a fine and maybe a 1 to 2-game suspension would've been suffice. This is another classic example of political correctness running amuck.
Two hockey players can beat the shit out of one another and they'll get to sit out a game for about 5 minutes before returning but making a comment about a player and his choice of dating another players ex will get you kicked out of the league altogether?
posted by BornIcon at 08:46 AM on December 16, 2008
im? Com'on man!! Why isn't the players union up at arms about Avery being dismissed for his remark?
He's getting paid. The team can choose who they want to play and who they don't, that's not an issue for the union. If a player is getting paid, they don't care what his career is doing.
posted by dfleming at 10:10 AM on December 16, 2008
He's getting paid
Ok, valid response but what about the player? What if "getting paid" for doing nothing is not what he's after? Is actually playing this year not an option for him just for just making a lewd remark?
posted by BornIcon at 10:27 AM on December 16, 2008
Is actually playing this year not an option for him just for just making a lewd remark?
He could get himself released without pay if he wanted and take his chances on another team signing him. The Stars would gladly let him out of his contract but I doubt he does that. He's got an agent telling him that he might as well earn some cash because he's likely untouchable right now.
There's a difference between collusion and being passed on by every team individually. I doubt a team would willingly avoid a player they think would make their team better. Theo Fleury got jobs after he screwed up. Sean's going to have to work himself back into the league. If he wants it enough, he'll find someone eventually.
posted by dfleming at 11:04 AM on December 16, 2008
Thanks for the knowledge, dfleming.
posted by BornIcon at 12:51 PM on December 16, 2008
I've had more than my fair share of experience of running into people in the professional world who dislike anyone who isn't an "easily led automaton" (to quote Clerks), and would rather just see those types run out of their happy little capsulized world...yet don't have the balls to just confront the problem, lest they are exposed as rigid, stuffed shirts with stick firmly implanted in their colons. I'll accept that there's possibly a ton of crap the Stars have had to put up with regarding Avery, and most of that was behind closed doors. It's highly possible that this was the last straw, and they're being forced into this...I can get that. But The story, as I understood it, was that Avery was cut loose from the team for his remarks. When people started questioning how he could get that stiff a punishment for a momentary lapse of reason (and let's face it, Avery is better known for momentary lapses of idiocy), the story changed to "oh, he's a locker room cancer, he has anger issues, and he doesn't want to play in our system." So I'm not saying this was unfair, if they've been pushed to the brink. I'm saying their behavior explaining it has sounded like every case of Vanilla Corp. wanting to weed out everyone that doesn't march to their beat. They complain that he was surly and closed in to teammates, but do we know if anyone on the team tried to get to know him? Did the coaching staff try to mesh his style of "play" into their system, or was it instantly "our way or the highway?" Did Modano, Morrow, Turco, or anyone else meet with him and have a "Tom Berenger going to Corbin Bersen's house in Major League" moment? None of this is known, or at least, not reported, so I can only go off what I've been told. So, given the facts, it does look classless and gutless.
When Avery signed with Dallas, my first reaction was "4 years/$16 mill? For Avery? That's the kind of deal I thought Bettman was trying to squash with the lockout, the cap, and the "New NHL."" I thought the days of Martin LaPointe and Bobby Holik were over. But here they are, overpaying for an AHL middler who's made a name for playing one way, and expecting him to conform to their way. Woner why that didn't work. But again, my opinions on this are based on what I know, not what I assume. Don't tell me "this could've happened, or that might've happened, or Avery was kicking puppies at the petting zoo, or he went on a hooker-killing spree with Greg Maddux after a road game in LA" because without proof, it's all hearsay.
And Bo, as a Wings fan, I am honor-bound to hate the Stars, and Modano in particular, as he's a traitor. Do I think the Stars are inherently gutless and classless? No, that's was a baiting move on my part that didn't really pan out. I don't have an opinion on them as a franchise, other than I felt sorry for Minnesota when they moved. But Modano has always been a soft leader, in my eyes. I thought naming Morrow the captain over him was a good move because Morrow doesn't look afraid to make waves in the locker room to better the team, whereas Modano always seemed to be trying to keep everyone happy. A leader doesn't need to scream and curse every minute, but dammit, get in guys' shit when they need it. Maybe I'm jaded given the leadership my teams have had over the years, but I just don't think Modano is the leader type.
posted by MeatSaber at 04:15 PM on December 16, 2008
So, given the facts, it does look classless and gutless.
Your "facts" are a bunch of questions that you have no answers to. I understand that you're inquisitive as to the nature of things, but most teams keep things that are within the locker room walls private. Some of it leaked but do you think the Red Wings announce when someone's behaving badly in the dressing room? Surely not.
Avery's history (in Boston a month ago swearing out a fan, Nashville two months ago with the 60 year old woman who he allegedly called "an old fucking cunt, I wouldn't even c*m in your face.", the alleged fight with the MSG announcer last year, the alleged Jason Blake cancer remark, the alleged George Laraque racial slur, the French Canadian remark) is really difficult to prove because noone carries a tape recorder around 24/7. That said, it would take a whole heaping lot of faith to think that all of this is fabricated and that he's a really social being who the Stars shunned from day 1.
You say that we can't prove that the Stars did anything to integrate him, but they've had a long line of free agents and trade recipients who seem to be getting along just fine. We can't prove any of these other things happened for sure in the past either. I
t seems really strange to me, though, that an organization (GM Jackson's one of the most respected, gentlemanly men in the game) which has had many players over the last few years buy into their program without a problem would sign Avery only to blackball him in his first season.
It seems less strange, given the number of people who have been "allegedly" affected by his anti-social behavior, that he might've decided once his contract was signed that he was going to do his own thing and fuck anyone who tells him otherwise.
posted by dfleming at 06:25 PM on December 16, 2008
The Red Wings of today are a bad example of locker room discord, given that at least one high profile free agent passed up millions in long-term security just to take a crack at playing here.
I never represented my questions as facts, and I know there are no answers to them. At least, none will be forthcoming. My confusion of this whole matter is surrounded by those very questions, though. Given what I know as fact, the Stars come off looking bad in this situation. Past free agents are irrelevant, because none of us knows whether they integrated seamlessly either. Who knows, maybe Avery is just that antisocial. But there is a possibility that the Stars right now are hard for new acquisitions to play for, and Avery snapped. Again, I'm not a fan of his, and he sure as hell isn't blameless. But if I'm a free agent in the NHL, watching this debacle unfold, I'd be asking myself if that's a worthwhile destination given the facts that have been released.
posted by MeatSaber at 08:36 PM on December 16, 2008
meaty, here's another article with a little more explanation for your reading pleasure.
If I'm a free agent in the NHL, I'd be thrilled that that goon is out of the league and now a talented player, maybe myself, would get a call. 4 million a year to play hockey and not be a total jack-off, that sounds do-able.
posted by BoKnows at 02:35 AM on December 17, 2008
It's a sport where you can punch someone in the face, but you can't say anything bad about their sister, wife or girlfirend to a reporter. That's the morality. Within the context of hockey, this is a perfectly predictable and reasoned response.
And if Avery were averaging 30 goals a season, this would be a different conversation. No one seems to like Avery. I don't see the Stars being unreasonable. It's their perogative. The Yankees don't let you grow long hair and beards, the Stars don't let you sound off like a complete ass in the media with your name on the back of their jersey. Some players may like it, some may not - but I don't see it being irrepairable damage to the Stars reputation.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 07:56 PM on December 17, 2008
So, does this make Avery the Stars' "sloppy seconds?"