11/05/24
May 17, 2004
EPL Fantasy League 2003-2004 Final. Congratulations to kWaCkY, whose Kwacky's Kwitters have won the league by a scant eight points over squealy's Ardley Athletic (despite the latter's final-week-winning 72). Remaining imaginary European places go to bluebears, Bayern Mucus, and winners-of-May-and-week-37 Mossy Athletic. Do we split leagues now? Keep one big league? That's for next season, the preoccupation of thirty-one of us who've played. This season, the one that belonged to Arsenal, belongs to the thirty-second, kWaCkY. (final tables and more inside)
posted by taupe to navel gazing at 04:20 PM - 107 comments
And here's the final table:
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posted by taupe at 04:41 PM on May 17, 2004
(After further review, it's just too ugly to try to post the code, so I guess the link above will have to do. It's a filter, wherein you save the HTML of the premierleague.com table page to a file like 'w38o' or 'w38m', and then just run it through as input with 'perl epl.pl w38o.txt' to get table code. You'll probably also need this as a template to put the table code into to preview. Also, when you're done building the table, you have to [1] remove all line breaks within the table itself before copy-pasting it to post, or else your table will be flanked with acres of blank space, and [2] repaste the whole table in again after preview, because previewing will turn all the ' 's in your code to spaces, leading to bad results.)
posted by taupe at 04:51 PM on May 17, 2004
Damn, garfield is going to be one to contend with in a full season. If you took the average of his 15 weeks in the league (49, ranging from a high of 96 to a low of 15) and mulitply that by 38, you get 1,862, good enough for top honors. Good on ya, garfy. As it is, he was too damned late. So big congrats to Kwacky and his Kwitters.
posted by Ufez Jones at 04:57 PM on May 17, 2004
(Like it did right there when I didn't repaste. Those were ' 's, by the way.)
posted by taupe at 04:57 PM on May 17, 2004
Oh, and thanks again for all the tabling and whatnot, taupe!
posted by Ufez Jones at 04:58 PM on May 17, 2004
I am all about the two leagues for next season... I love the whole idea! I can't see how anyone could be against it, really. Of course, the real excitement won't begin till late next season when we have the promotion and relegation battles. I brought this up before...the most logical thing to do would be to have the relegated teams from this league (spots 21-32 and whoever else wants to join up this year play in the First Division in a Yahoo League. The top 20 here in this table continue to play in the EPL League. The relegation/promotion should be 5 teams...thats fair i think. We can make it 6 or 7, i don't really care...or even half the table. Either way, it would be so damn cool i don't have the right words to express myself. The reason for having the First Division play in Yahoo is for more realism. Yahoo and the EPL don't use the same point structure so it would be even more realistic...as if you aren't using the same players...(even though you are)... For those that LIKE the Yahoo League, like me...i will create a separate league to participate in...cause i'm crazy like that and i can't get enough! I can supervise the whole thing to make sure people are in the right leagues and all so the work will be all mine, all you'll have to do is sit back and enjoy... We will be the envy of every fantasy league all over the world! If you don't like this idea, you don't like football...
posted by StarFucker at 05:04 PM on May 17, 2004
I just feel relieved to have finished in the top 20 in my first every fantasy experience, so will go along with the consensus on the one/two league question. This year ought to help a little bit when picking next season's team. I hope. Congrats, Kwacky. Thanks Taupe.
posted by billsaysthis at 05:15 PM on May 17, 2004
thanks ufez. re: relegation...I'm down for whatever. But I'd prefer not to wait a full season before winning it all in the bigs....said the newbie. a couple more things: taupe is the MAN! To everyone who answered my uninformed questions, many thanks! and Kwacky, you're the Kwackiest! nice work.
posted by garfield at 05:17 PM on May 17, 2004
Bill, you are the Portsmouth of our league...
posted by StarFucker at 05:19 PM on May 17, 2004
Big up to Kwacky and Squealy for maintaining the honour of Blues fans. Starfucker: the Sepp Blatter of Spofi.
posted by Fat Buddha at 05:33 PM on May 17, 2004
Thats an incredible insult Buddha...
posted by StarFucker at 05:58 PM on May 17, 2004
ONE BIG LEAGUE. Well done to kWaCkY and to andy griffiths for completing the bluenose top 3 clean sweep, and thanks to taupe for all his effort.
posted by squealy at 06:51 PM on May 17, 2004
FB, you have a true eye for characterization. Or character assassination but still cool. I prefer to think of myself as Liverpool, closer to the bottom than the top but still emotionally validating.
posted by billsaysthis at 10:55 PM on May 17, 2004
One big league, two leagues, I don't care, because I don't want to argue about it anymore. (OK, I would really like to see a two-league promo/relegation format but we know that already.) I do appreciate, however, StarFucker's enthusiasm, support and initiative in taking the commissioner role. Good on you and I will support you all the way, however the league format turns out. And congrats to kwacky. Good job, altho I think my sentimental favorite was taupe, for his excellent and diligent postings week in and week out, as well as his modesty and good humor when he was no. 1. *sniff* I'm getting all verklempt. Talk amongst yerselves.
posted by worldcup2002 at 11:02 PM on May 17, 2004
Neener neener at Rings of Saturn and Crap City United for being pipped at the post to the UEFA spot. I kid, I kid..
posted by Mossy at 11:15 PM on May 17, 2004
Here's my gift to the Top 3:
posted by worldcup2002 at 11:16 PM on May 17, 2004
yeah, i definitely showed a newcastle type swoon at the end. battling for 5th for most of the season i get pipped at the post by mossy and fall to 7th. i had been leading mossy for the ENTIRE pool only to get passed by him in the last week. well, that's what i get for going with two newcastle players in the late going. but hey, at least i didn't swoon out of the top spot on the very last day like happened in last years pool (which I was not participating in but can somehow remember for some reason)
posted by gspm at 01:12 AM on May 18, 2004
Jerk...
posted by StarFucker at 02:32 AM on May 18, 2004
heh, choker.
posted by gspm at 05:44 AM on May 18, 2004
Thank's all. Not bad going for my first season. As the graph shows I had a shit start but unlike Man United I managed to hold it together (just) until the end, despite selling Henry before his hat-trick. A big "Big Up" to Squealy for second place. A massive "Hear Me Now!" to taupe for all his hard work. It's been appreciated. Now where's me fecking trophy?
posted by kWaCkY at 11:50 AM on May 18, 2004
If we do go with the suggested split of Top 20 finishers as Premiership in the EPL FL and everyone else in Yahoo as First Division, would it be okay to run a second team in the First Division? I enjoyed both styles and having two teams boosted my learning/enjoyment curve.
posted by billsaysthis at 08:30 PM on May 18, 2004
Same here. I really liked aspects of both leagues.
posted by jasonspaceman at 09:27 PM on May 18, 2004
I don't understand the question...
posted by StarFucker at 11:15 PM on May 18, 2004
2 teams each dear boy. One in the top flight and t'other in the lower league.
posted by kWaCkY at 01:01 AM on May 19, 2004
I already said i was going to have a separate league for those that want to join both... One EPL and Yahoo League that matters for relegation/promotion...and then another Yahoo and EPL League for people that just want another team or don't want to be in the competition.
posted by StarFucker at 01:59 AM on May 19, 2004
The cunning thing being.. You can enter the same team in both divisions! Kinda.
posted by Mossy at 02:41 AM on May 19, 2004
Why not 2 leagues, which anyone can join as they see fit?
posted by Fat Buddha at 03:46 AM on May 19, 2004
Everyone should start their own league. Then we can have 30 different update threads in the lockerroom each Monday or thereabouts. I am not really caring what the solution is, the idea of relegation is kind of fun though the consequences aren't all that significant. (if somehow a second tier pool could be set up with less money in the budget for the team then we'd be on to someting). All I want for myself is to enter one pool - this EPL seemed dandy to me - and improve on my performance next year. which may be easier or harder depending on how many competitors are also in that pool. The idea of competing against the same group of poolsters each season (+- the relegated and promoted competitors) is intriguing though with the way people sign up for pools and then abandon them (ie more than half of the current NHL playoff pool competitors seem to have paid it no recent attention) I can't see the reality of a two pool system coming anywhere close to what the mental ideal would be.
posted by gspm at 04:51 AM on May 19, 2004
"The mental idea" Yep, it is a mental idea.
posted by Fat Buddha at 05:59 AM on May 19, 2004
I'm still against the idea of two leagues. Just thought I'd remind you all.
posted by squealy at 06:42 AM on May 19, 2004
I am against promotion and relegation but for two leagues. As you were, in other words. For what it's worth.
posted by Fat Buddha at 08:08 AM on May 19, 2004
....as long as I'm not stuck only in a Yahoo league....
posted by garfield at 08:13 AM on May 19, 2004
Since I'm one of the ones that would be relegated, take this with the obligatory grain of salt, but I'd prefer to have a single league as well.
posted by trox at 09:33 AM on May 19, 2004
I don't understand your people's objection to having a promotion/releagation competition...i really don't. What IS the freakin' objection?! It would be more fun you freakin' luddites! Typical attitudes of those against: "I'm against change..." "Because its stupid..." "I'll be in the lower league so it sucks..." Typical attitudes of those for: "Lets try it, it sounds interesting..." "I don't care, i just wanna play but it sounds intriguing..." Taking an opposition side doesn't necessarily mean you have integrity, but it could mean you just like to stir up shit...
posted by StarFucker at 03:56 PM on May 19, 2004
SF, I just don't want to play in a Yahoo league. I'll be in the B league, but why can't the B league be at the EPL site? That's really my main concern.
posted by garfield at 04:11 PM on May 19, 2004
Well...the reason for the Yahoo/EPL split was that i was looking for more "realism"... If that is the main concern of others that are against the split, i can happily accept having both Premier and First Division in the EPL...
posted by StarFucker at 04:17 PM on May 19, 2004
Can't we just give it a chance one year? And if it sucks i'll shut up forever and next year we can all go back to the regular format. Its just that i feel in my gut that you will all be glad in the end that we did it this way and you will find yourself more interested. I don't think much harm could occur from this experiment...we have enough guys to fill a Premier and First Division. Think of the highs of promotion...the lows of relegation...the battle for the last promotion spot towards the end of the season, etc.
posted by StarFucker at 04:35 PM on May 19, 2004
I am with SF, let's do it.
posted by billsaysthis at 05:19 PM on May 19, 2004
I think "because it's stupid" is a good argument. I don't disagree with you to antagonise you SF, just because I think it's a bad idea. I'm of the opinion that one big league would be more fun, you're of the opinion that it wouldn't. There's no bridging that gap.
posted by squealy at 05:37 PM on May 19, 2004
I'm OF the opinion that it would be cool to try and could turn out to BE more fun, not that either one is more fun than the other... But if we don't try, we'll never know. And saying that "because its stupid..." is a good argument, is antagonizing...
posted by StarFucker at 05:47 PM on May 19, 2004
One league makes more sense - more possibility for banter between teams, and a greater competition. As a side note, teams are often split into divisions because there's only a limited number of games a season each can play - we just don't have this problem in Fantasy leagues. Secondly, it would be a bit farcical if the SpoFi B team league starts doing a lot better than the A team league. Thirdly, two leagues makes it much harder to organise - I guess there's several people in our EPL table who rarely look at it and may not participate next year - there may be problems getting the right people to sign up, making sure the right number of teams are in each division exarcerbates this problem. When you have latecomers wanting to join, which league do they go in? (I'd assume B) In which case, we could and probably will end up with 12 active members in the top division, and 30 active members of division 2. Whew. I've no complaint of running say an EPL and Yahoo leagues as separate competitions if you must. One league. All together. It's better that way.
posted by BigCalm at 06:15 PM on May 19, 2004
Fooker, I feel for you. Deja vu.
posted by worldcup2002 at 07:06 PM on May 19, 2004
I do not care which league I am in. I am already for the next season to start. Thanks to a few of you, I was able to learn alot about the sport I knew nothing about before sportsfilter.
posted by jasonspaceman at 07:26 PM on May 19, 2004
Big Calm, all of those freakin' reasons you listed are ALL speculation... Your first "point": "more possibility for banter between teams, and a greater competition..." Uh, what?! How the hell do you know this? What makes you think so? As i stated above, if we don't try we won't know...you're talking out of your ass as if you have already "been there, done that"...this is a first as far as i know and NO ONE KNOWS whether it will be better or worse or even just the same... Your second "point": "it would be a bit farcical if the SpoFi B team league starts doing a lot better than the A team league..." That has already been thought through by having the Yahoo League represent First Division...do you even READ the suggestions or are you just going through the motions? Your third "point": "Thirdly, two leagues makes it much harder to organise..." Again, i already said i would take care of this...you won't have do to shit but just lay back and enjoy... BigCalm...you haven't said anything to make it seem as if one big league is better...not even fucking close. Seriously, why don't you just sit back and give it a try...you remind me of my father who won't touch the DVD player cause its scary and new.
posted by StarFucker at 08:33 PM on May 19, 2004
Loth as I am to agree with a Villa fan, I must. Starfucker old chap, instead of spitting bile, you would be better employed explaining why your idea makes sense, because I am yet to be convinced.
posted by Fat Buddha at 02:39 AM on May 20, 2004
"it would be a bit farcical if the SpoFi B team league starts doing a lot better than the A team league..." That has already been thought through by having the Yahoo League represent First Division...do you even READ the suggestions or are you just going through the motions? If that's the case, I'd rather be in the B league, because the EPL is updated more often and is generally a better fantasy league. Big Calm, all of those freakin' reasons you listed are ALL speculation... Yes, they are speculation, but even if you put the effort in, I can't see that you'll end up with two balanced divisions. That would be almost impossible to achieve in practice.
posted by BigCalm at 05:44 AM on May 20, 2004
The flaw is that although there will be two leagues, everyone will be playing in the same competition, with the same pool of players to choose from. As has been pointed out, it could easily happen that someone in the lower league scores hundreds more points than the best in the higher league. It is nonsense.
posted by Fat Buddha at 06:44 AM on May 20, 2004
I don't know how you can say that, FB. I've said it before: On the face of it, your statement is oh so logical. But, man, this is a FANTASY LEAGUE! Why apply your logical flaw argument to a two-league system and not one fantasy league? I mean, how is it that one guy can pick 11 players from 11 different teams? How come some players can get bonus points? I mean, why is there verisimilitude in one instance but not the other? C'mon! Give me a flipping break. It's a pretend league, and we're pretending to be managers of pretend teams. All Fooker is asking for (and I started it) is to play a bigger pretend game. If you can't figure that out, I don't know what else to say.
posted by worldcup2002 at 10:06 AM on May 20, 2004
The fact that we are arguing about it with a couple of crotchety old Brits is ridiculous... BC and FB are acting like old war veterans who have already tried this "stupid" idea and it was a miserable failure... In old man's voice---> "Back in my day we didn't HAVE your fancy 2 division fantasy leagues...we only had one and by jum, we were happy to have it. The Kaiser tried to take that away from us too, but we held fast...and to this day, you can still play the ol' classic One Division Fantasy League...and now you know who to thank for it."
posted by StarFucker at 10:44 AM on May 20, 2004
FB's Comment: "The flaw is that although there will be two leagues, everyone will be playing in the same competition, with the same pool of players to choose from. As has been pointed out, it could easily happen that someone in the lower league scores hundreds more points than the best in the higher league." Dammit dude, can you freakin' read?! THE LEAGUES WILL BE IN DIFFRENT FORMATS!! ONE YAHOO ONE EPL! Damn man, no wonder we can't agree, people don't even know what is at stake for god's sake.
posted by StarFucker at 10:46 AM on May 20, 2004
My dear old thing, calm down, it's only a fantasy league. Starter for ten, who said this: ...i can happily accept having both Premier and First Division in the EPL... WC2002, I can't see how how splitting the league up, and possibly dumping some in a different league makes a bigger pretend game, it makes 2 smaller pretend games, maybe even 3. If you want a bigger pretend game, you want one big pretend league. All I see from starfucker is insults, I still await a coherent rationale for the splitting of the league.
posted by Fat Buddha at 11:01 AM on May 20, 2004
I said that to appease squealy...its not what i really want. But i would still prefer both leagues in EPL if that would calm down the populace. I await your coherent rationale for NOT splitting the league.
posted by StarFucker at 11:03 AM on May 20, 2004
Hhhaaha. You are funny guy, I asked first! You show me and I'll show you.
posted by Fat Buddha at 11:27 AM on May 20, 2004
You show me and I'll show you. Hey hey, there's no need for that kind of thing here.
posted by worldcup2002 at 11:30 AM on May 20, 2004
I already showed you... You come back with nothing.
posted by StarFucker at 11:34 AM on May 20, 2004
Show me again!
posted by Fat Buddha at 11:55 AM on May 20, 2004
Read above...
posted by StarFucker at 11:59 AM on May 20, 2004
Likewise.
posted by Fat Buddha at 12:01 PM on May 20, 2004
I win.
posted by StarFucker at 12:03 PM on May 20, 2004
did you guys take your meds today?
posted by garfield at 12:23 PM on May 20, 2004
You lose.
posted by Fat Buddha at 12:29 PM on May 20, 2004
"You can't waltz in here, use my toaster and start spouting universal truths without qualification!"
posted by StarFucker at 12:31 PM on May 20, 2004
"I want to thank you for making this day necessary."
posted by Fat Buddha at 12:58 PM on May 20, 2004
I liked the two-leagues-both-in-EPL idea, precisely because people in the lower league could easily end up with higher scores than people in the higher league, and could thus give them no end of shit for it. That's fun in and of itself, and creates a de facto single league parallel to the two divisions, and, I think, would make everybody happy.
posted by taupe at 01:22 PM on May 20, 2004
O.K taupe, I'm convinced.
posted by Fat Buddha at 01:23 PM on May 20, 2004
Ok children, I guess we can argue until the cows come home on this. Let's vote on it instead.
posted by BigCalm at 01:25 PM on May 20, 2004
Damnit. Ignore that vote link. Just realises it allows anybody to vote as many times as they like. Hmm.
posted by BigCalm at 01:27 PM on May 20, 2004
HA! I voted twice. 
posted by StarFucker at 01:42 PM on May 20, 2004
Y'all are so cute when you're catty.
posted by Ufez Jones at 01:48 PM on May 20, 2004
I got copped: Your vote has already been taken. Quite a few times, thank you. Spamming a public poll is bad, mmmkay? Feel free to vote on any other poll, but please don't abuse this public forum. Thank you!
posted by Fat Buddha at 01:50 PM on May 20, 2004
Yeah, after two votes it stopped me too!
posted by StarFucker at 01:54 PM on May 20, 2004
Purely in the interest of skewing the results, here's an earlier vote: Yea/yay: (9) Fooker dusted (are you playing this season? I can't tell) wc2k2 bill kwacky eckeric jason lilnemo garfield Maybe/i'm cool with it: (2) squealy Ufez You crazy: (1) jerseygirl
posted by worldcup2002 at 01:54 PM on May 20, 2004
I'm still waiting for me fecking trophy
posted by kWaCkY at 01:57 PM on May 20, 2004
btw, that poll is fixed. You can be both for promo/relegation as well as EPL/Yahoo league split (because the latter would be just one flavor of the former) but those choices are set up as exclusive in the poll. Jimmy Carter, UN elections observer and former US president, said "This puts George W Bush to shame."
posted by worldcup2002 at 01:58 PM on May 20, 2004
Does Jersey Girl count? I can just about stomach women getting into football, but I don't believe they really like it; I can just about get my head around Yanks liking football, but a yank woman? that's a step too far. Absolutely no offence intended against jerseygirl, who is clearly one of the good guys. As it were.
posted by Fat Buddha at 02:00 PM on May 20, 2004
Diebold had something to do with it i'm sure...where is my printout?
posted by StarFucker at 02:01 PM on May 20, 2004
kwacky: Pick one.
posted by worldcup2002 at 02:02 PM on May 20, 2004
Should kwacky not be interviewed?
posted by Fat Buddha at 02:03 PM on May 20, 2004
You do it, FB. Kinda like handing over the mantle, you know.
posted by worldcup2002 at 02:10 PM on May 20, 2004
You said, handling...
posted by StarFucker at 02:12 PM on May 20, 2004
Taupe's point has me convinced. I still don't like the Yahoo league though.
posted by trox at 02:27 PM on May 20, 2004
wc2002, I really couldn't, you have set the bar too high and I would embarrass myself.
posted by Fat Buddha at 02:30 PM on May 20, 2004
Taupe's point? TAUPE'S POINT?! You guys would take ANYONE's word over mine... Taupe could have copied and pasted what i wrote and you would say good point...
posted by StarFucker at 02:30 PM on May 20, 2004
So, I'll buy you a beer sometime and let's call it even.
posted by trox at 02:37 PM on May 20, 2004
2 beers...i'm unemployed.
posted by StarFucker at 02:40 PM on May 20, 2004
Taupe could have copied and pasted what i wrote and you would say good point... Oh, hey, good point Taupe
posted by eckeric at 04:55 PM on May 20, 2004
I better get my stapler back soon!
posted by billsaysthis at 06:31 PM on May 20, 2004
Red staplers are so hard to find these days :(
posted by Mossy at 06:56 PM on May 20, 2004
FB, you flatter to deceive.
posted by worldcup2002 at 08:16 PM on May 20, 2004
So i win then? Or should i say something less pompous, like...so we agree?
posted by StarFucker at 01:38 AM on May 23, 2004
That poll is worthless.
posted by StarFucker at 02:53 PM on May 23, 2004
Yep, I always said democracy was overrated. Simple answer, post a voting thread. Give people the possible options clearly i.e. 1, 2, 3 and 4. One vote for anyone who participated in last season's EPL FFL. The result is binding and we never speak of it again (until the end of next season, hehe).
posted by squealy at 05:55 PM on May 23, 2004
A voting thread? That will be hard to do...unless everyone only votes and doesn't makes comments.
posted by StarFucker at 02:35 AM on May 24, 2004
Err, just ignore the comments and count the votes? It's fairly straightforward: "There are 3 possible options for next season's EPL FFL. All those who competed last year please indicate your preferred option. 1. 2 PremierLeague.com leagues with promotion and relegation. 2. 1 PremierLeague.com and 1 Yahoo league with promotion and relegation.. 3. One big league."
posted by squealy at 04:04 AM on May 24, 2004
I vote for a pony.
posted by salmacis at 03:40 PM on May 24, 2004
This pony, does it vibrate or eat pancakes?
posted by billsaysthis at 05:27 PM on May 24, 2004
It does both. Have you never seen a pony before?
posted by squealy at 05:35 PM on May 24, 2004
Not in the flesh since my fifth birthday party.
posted by billsaysthis at 08:08 PM on May 24, 2004
That's a no then SF?
posted by squealy at 05:52 PM on May 25, 2004
A no to what?
posted by StarFucker at 03:14 AM on May 26, 2004
careful SF. it may be a mind trick.
posted by gspm at 05:13 AM on May 26, 2004
Sheesh. A(nother) sad day for democracy and ponies.
posted by squealy at 06:47 AM on May 26, 2004
I think they prefer to be called "small horse".
posted by kWaCkY at 02:52 PM on May 26, 2004
I think they prefer to be called "small horse". Vertically-challenged is the latest I've read from them lot, kWaCkY.
posted by billsaysthis at 02:54 PM on May 26, 2004
Does Jersey Girl count? Haha. I come over to this thread to see what all the hundred+ comments are... and my name shows up. No, I can't wrap my head about footie. I just can't do it, just like calculus.
posted by jerseygirl at 03:13 PM on May 26, 2004
I got otherwise preoccupied in the last week or so and didn't get around to this last week, or anytime until now. It's easier just to build and post both weeks' tables, so I'll do that. Here's the table after Week 37: