May 15, 2007

Bulls 1: - Pistons 3
Cavs 3 - Nets 1
Suns 2 - Spurs 2
Warriors 1 - Jazz 3


posted by lilnemo to basketball at 12:21 PM - 35 comments

If anyone but Horry gets suspended, I will lose my mind, common sense must prevail, as childish as it is, the 'but he started it rule' needs to be the only rule enforced here. I've hated Horry for 15 years, he did nothing to change that last night.

posted by cwmizner at 01:32 PM on May 15

Ah, it's the playoffs. They'll suspend Horry because of this low grade hysteria it's caused, but frankly the only player who is truly dangerous to others is Bowen. He'll injure you for real. Stoudamire will not be suspended. That's ridiculous. The letter of the law would mean suspensions every time a great play happens and teammates walk onto the court to celebrate/congratulate. But what a series. What a win for Phoenix. Huge momentum swing. The look on Duncan's face at the end of that one said it all: "We played our game, hit for a high percentage and only let them have 13 fast break points. We lost? WHAT?"

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:36 PM on May 15

After bouncin' back to hit the FTs after a shoulder check like that, Nash is undoubtedly forever etched on Don Cherry's playoff hero roster! Don Cherry? What?

posted by Spitztengle at 02:33 PM on May 15

Its interesting to note that in a season where the League's front office has come down hard on arguing with officials, flopping, and "unnatural basketball motion", that they would allow playoff games get so physical. There were several incidents in the Suns/Spurs tilt where players were getting away with extra-curricular activity under the basket, and in transition. There were several occasions where Oberto and Raja Bell used unnecessary contact on screen rolls, in the same sequence! Usually when games get chippy, the refs take team captains or the offending opponents aside and tell them to knock it off. I don't recall seeing any such meetings taking place at all in this series (though I could be wrong). Actually, the league has been pretty lenient thus far.

posted by lilnemo at 03:29 PM on May 15

The refs totally mis-managed that game, it was really physical that entire game. Pheonix was punching back at the Spurs physicality so to speak and it ended with Horry checking Nash out of bounds. Considering the physicality all game I was dismayed by the calls they were calling at the end of the game, it totally took the Spurs out of their rythmn and Pheonix took advantage and made their comeback. This is just my opinion, but I think the refs are looking the other way when Duncan gets fouled and being real picky when he has it on Offense. The refs ole boys club is gettin back at him for gettin that ref suspended from the play-offs. Those calls on him late in the 4th took him out of the game completely.

posted by dezznutz at 03:39 PM on May 15

It will be hard for the NBA to justify suspending any player from either the Suns or the Spurs in game 4 if they wouldn't even suspend Baron Davis for a blatant elbow to Derek Fisher.

posted by ksb122 at 04:51 PM on May 15

It will be hard for the NBA to justify suspending any player from either the Suns or the Spurs in game 4 if they wouldn't even suspend Baron Davis for a blatant elbow to Derek Fisher. Sad but true. The league has to be consistent if they are going to be anything. You can't suspend guys in the regular season for BULLSHIT and then let them wrestle in the playoffs. It makes the league look like a joke.

posted by yay-yo at 05:04 PM on May 15

i gotta get to 15 posts to i can start a thread on the stupidest move in the history of professional sports Or you could just continue to discuss it here. Thats the purpose of these NBA playoff threads. I really don't see what more you could say that you haven't already. Throwing a tantrum like this isn't going to do anything about it.

posted by lilnemo at 06:39 PM on May 15

i live in phoenix btw, ;) no it's not going to do anything about, unfortunately there is nothing i alone can do about it, it's just sad, it's just wrong, what message does it send? take your 12th man, but him in during the 1st quarter, deck the other teams best player in front of their bench to try and get some suspensions sad, so sad

posted by cwmizner at 06:45 PM on May 15

take your 12th man, but him in during the 1st quarter, deck the other teams best player in front of their bench to try and get some suspensions Ok. First off, Horry isn't the Spurs 12th man. Udrih didn't get any run, and I wouldn't even call him their 12th man. That aside, I don't think the hit was pre-meditated. Which is to say, I don't think Horry put any more forethought into striking Nash than, "I'm going to foul him. HARD." There may be a few tenuous emotional causes for the voraciousness of the foul (loss of a game-long lead, inability to execute down the stretch), but not much more beyond that. To ascribe some sort of ulterior motive to Horry's actions, is quite frankly, giving him too much credit. What you are describing is a conspiracy theory. At best.

posted by lilnemo at 06:55 PM on May 15

why foul hard? the game was over, yes he needed to be fouled, but why hard? because horry is a dick, that's why, the whole team is a bunch of thugs and cry babies, throw popovich in there too, they have talent yes, but no class, none, zero suns are a class act, nice guys finish last, bad bad move for the NBA and Stu Jackson you may have a point about giving him too much credit, =) i'm aware he's not their 12th man, i was making a general statement about the message the NBA is sending

posted by cwmizner at 07:11 PM on May 15

cwm, on the left side of your keyboard, about half way up, usually just below the Tab key, you'll find another key, called Caps Lock, and right below it, a key called Shift, you might want to use those keys now and then. Usually a neat place to use them would be at the beginning of a sentence.

posted by tommytrump at 07:17 PM on May 15

Brilliantly. While we're at it, I would like to direct you towards our guidelines. There is information there you may find helpful.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 07:39 PM on May 15

because horry is a dick, that's why, the whole team is a bunch of thugs and cry babies, throw popovich in there too, they have talent yes, but no class, none, zero I guess you don't watch your coach, or your players during the game. D'Antoni is always crying. Even when the Suns are up by 20 he's still crying to the refs on every damn play. Don't even get me started on Amare. That guy is constantly talking to the officials. On another note, I know where your coming from. Your team f'd up. You're upset. Plain and simple. They knew the rules, they broke the rules, they got punished. End of story. suns are a class act, nice guys finish last, bad bad move for the NBA and Stu Jackson Yeah, Raja Bell is a class act... NOT! (Borat reference). Tim Duncan is a pretty nice guy from what I can see. Apparently the league thought so also when they gave him the sportsmanship award a few years back. The Suns play a finesse style of basketball and that is not what wins in the playoffs. You gotta be tough to survive.

posted by yay-yo at 08:35 PM on May 15

Bulls 2 Pistons 3. Bullies shoot 72% in first half to make it a series after all......

posted by wdminott at 10:37 PM on May 15

Firstly, Horry's play was a load of crap, he should have been suspended for the rest of the series, regardless of whether it's two or three games, and at least the first two of the next series if they moved on. The Suns were just responding to a play that could easily have been detrimental to their best player's health. And if the responses get you suspended, why didn't Nash himself get suspended? When he got up, he charged at the group of players like he was shot out of a cannon. Horry should be the only player suspended from this, no Suns should be. Plus, there's still Stoudemire's argument that he was coming over to the scorer's table to come into the game when the Horry/Nash incident occurred, which isn't a bad argument. The NBA execs are screwing themselves over here. The Suns' style of basketball may have not been a proven winner yet, but it's sure more interesting than the Spurs' style. The Suns continuing in the playoffs is good for the viewers and will attract more people to watch. And if you say the Suns can't play physical basketball, you weren't watching the game on Monday. When the Suns took control of the game toward the end of the game, they started to play physical, tough defense. San Antonio went cold at this time as well, this is true. But Phoenix isn't incapable of playing physical basketball, they just don't most of the time.

posted by boredom_08 at 11:12 PM on May 15

Go SUNS in game 5, they can cheap shot us, the NBA can screw us, it won't be enough, SUNS will win the NBA Championship.

posted by Mize at 01:58 AM on May 16

lilnemo puts all the effort into putting together these threads, and they're idiot-jacked. Thanks for continuing to put up with this stupid crap, lilnemo. Mize, this is not the Suns' Cheerleader Site. Please read the guidelines. Also, what's with the "us?" Do you actually play for the Suns? I'm guessing no. boredom, the NBA's job is not to try and bring the two most exciting teams together. While it may seem unfortunate to you, the purpose of the playoffs is to match the best teams, whether they're exciting or not. Having said that, I do agree that the NBA's inconsistencies when it comes to officiating and enforcement are maddening if you're a fan of the sport.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 05:14 AM on May 16

suns are a class act.....i live in phoenix btw A little biased there, don't you think?

posted by BornIcon at 06:32 AM on May 16

Team sport is built wholly on the premise of just that: the team. You cannot ask a group of people to band together, grind through the practices, the games and the ups and downs of a season, travel through airports and room together on the road, share meals, banter in the locker room, work hard to come back from injuries, have everything crystallize for one run through the playoffs ... and then if some opponent takes a cheap shot at your best player, to NOT instinctively react. What should happen is that AFTER you instinctively react and take the first steps towards the conflict, you'd better regain your composure and not get involved. The PHX assistants did a great job of not letting Diaw and Stoudemire reach the fray, which dissipated their initial (reasonable) desire to protect their teammate. Suspension unwarranted. If they get there and shove, elbow, punch, then suspension warranted. I have no problem with that. That's why there must be a subjective interpretation with this rule, and not the (purportedly) objective usage of a "cross the sideline and you're suspended" policy. The NBA expects these guys to turn off the sense of "team" like a switch -- you cannot do that and still have a compelling product on the floor. We watch pro sport because of what great individuals are capable of accomplishing as a team.

posted by smithers at 08:14 AM on May 16

Although I've been rooting for the Suns in this series over the Spurs, and I think the suspensions to Diaw and Stoudamire are unfair, I'm not going to complain and cry "foul" on Stern and Jackson over them. What happened, happened. The bad guy, Robert Horry, was still put away for longer than the other two. As I'm writing this, Game 5 still hasn't been played yet, and anything can happen. Really, this will be a major test for the Suns. Equate this, if you will, to a poker game. The players aren't good because they're dealt the best hand; they're good because they know how to play with the hand they ARE dealt, good or crappy. I believe the rule about leaving the bench should be changed to be made more lenient, but this isn't the time to do it, in mid-playoffs. No NBA executive nor referee can "win" a series over one team or another. The series will be settled by two teams on a basketball court, and will be won by the team that displays the strongest intestinal fortitude to put all the "cheap shot" crap aside, be it complaining or instigating, and get that ball through the hoop. Nothing more, nothing less.

posted by NerfballPro at 09:04 AM on May 16

Even if it is objective, I don't understand its implementation in this situation. (Definition A) I had thought the rule was - leave the bench and you're suspended. (Definition B) Apparently, the rule is - leave the bench during an altercation and you're suspended. Is this the case? If (A) then Duncan and Bowen both need to be suspended. If (B) then Duncan and Bowen should not have been suspended. However, if (B) is true, then TrueHoop is correct in point out the following absurdity - say some Phoenix scrub were to notice that Duncan and Bowen had left the bench and were hanging out on the court. If he were to then jump up and punch someone in the face, THEN Duncan and Bowen would be suspended. This whole thing stinks.

posted by chmurray at 09:08 AM on May 16

The league went way wrong by not suspending The Beard after he shoulder checked Fisher. The other suspensions were warranted as outlined by the NBA code of conduct. Believe me, I understand the frustration (the league suspended my favorite teams best player twice this season for "unnatural motions"). Stoudamire will be a loss, but Diaw hasn't done shit the entire playoffs. He's the equivalent of Robert Horry on the Spurs. From what I saw, Nash was perfectly capable of taking care of himself, and he had Raja freaking Bell to help him out. In any case, there is no way for your to justify the ruling or condemn it. It happened, it's over. Just hope that the Suns can win the last two when they get Stoudamire back. I can see it now, Big Shot Bob returns from his two-game suspension and hits the game winner in the dying seconds of game 7. (I've seen him do it before, ask any Sacramento Kings fan.)

posted by yay-yo at 09:19 AM on May 16

On another note, I know where your coming from. Your team f'd up. You're upset. Plain and simple. They knew the rules, they broke the rules, they got punished. End of story Oh c'mon - they didn't break the intent of the stupid fucking rule. They didn't engage in any fighting. What about leaving the bench to celebrate a big play? Technically your coming on - since the letter of the law is the law - they should be suspended, too. But they're not because of a little thing called common sense. The result is that the Spurs are rewarded for their goonery. It encourages the behaviour. Now teams know that if you attack a star you can probably goad some of the star's teammates off the bench and get them suspended. Be sure to punch him next time - you might get two or three to come at you. Good move. Stu Jackson is pretty much a tool, more concerned that he appear consistent with the NBAs ill-conceived bench rules then actual justice or fairness. They blew it. Big time.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 09:20 AM on May 16

So you think Horry gets a little something extra in his pay envelope this week? I hadn't followed the NBA in at least 5 years and decided to start watching again just for this series. I will not watch anymore. Back to the NFL.

posted by jwhite613 at 09:43 AM on May 16

Wow Bulls our making a little series out of this little blowout at the Palace. Everybody had a good game. Thomas made like five dunks and missed a few layups. Hinrich had 13 assists, Gordan had 25 points I think. Drillen threes all over the place, just an incredible game for Chicago. I don't think they can pull off a win for game six though, maybe but not garenteed. Only three teams in sports history have come back 0-3 and won the series, so maybe the Bulls can add themselves to the list.

posted by TelamarketersBeware at 10:02 AM on May 16

The NBA rule is very clear about what happens when a players leaves the bench during an altercation. It's a stupid rule, but I don't see what else they could have done. Here it is: Section VII - Fines c. During an altercation, all players not participating in the game must remain in the immediate vicinity of their bench. Violators will be suspended, without pay, for a minimum of one game and fined up to $35,000.

posted by bperk at 10:03 AM on May 16

Charles Barkley hates that rule. He about killed two announcers last night before the Bulls game and at half-time.

posted by TelamarketersBeware at 10:05 AM on May 16

During an altercation, all players not participating in the game must remain in the immediate vicinity of their bench. Violators will be suspended, without pay, for a minimum of one game and fined up to $35,000. That's up for interpretation. How do they define an altercation? When one of the Spurs went for a dunk over one of the Suns, the two players locked eyes and there was a 'mild altercation' and while on the bench, Tim Duncan walked past the 3 point line. Where's the suspension for Timmy? Also, what does 'immediate vicinity of their bench' mean? I understand that the rules are the rules but those rules were implemented because of what transpired between the Miami Heat and New York Knicks back in the 1999 playoffs when there was a bench clearing brawl after PJ Brown flipped Charlie Ward. Now that was an altercation. IMO, Robert Horry was frustrated and wanted to try to entice Steve Nash to respond thus the 'hip check'. I just don't see why Amare' was suspended when he was not even part of the alteration. If Amare is suspended, Bruce Bowen should have been as well for the knee to the groin on Nash and also Duncan for leaving the bench during an altercation.

posted by BornIcon at 10:24 AM on May 16

Bruce Bowen should have been as well for the knee to the groin on Nash If that was the case, Nash would have been suspended in the 1st round for kicking #24 in the balls while making a layup. As for the Pistons, just when I start to give them some credit...

posted by yay-yo at 10:30 AM on May 16

If that was the case, Nash would have been suspended in the 1st round for kicking #24 in the balls while making a layup We're talking about the Suns vs. Spurs series here and most of us saw that sneaky, dirty play by Bowens. I heard no mention made of the kick from Nash to Kobe. If that happened, he should have been suspended. Nothing happened then and apparently nothing is being done now. Players can get clotheslined, low-blowed but God-forbid a players teammate stands up for their fallen comrade. That's a no-no. Just ridiculous!

posted by BornIcon at 10:47 AM on May 16

Nothing happened then and apparently nothing is being done now. Next time Stoudamire should wait to get back in the game and kick someone in the nuts! It seems to be a legal play. Just don't punch someone in the nuts or you'll get suspended like J-Terry did last year. Last year some dude reached between Chris Kamans legs (from behind), grabbed his sack and proceeded to try to rip it off. He didn't get suspended either.

posted by yay-yo at 11:46 AM on May 16

As I stated before, the League and the referees have been consistently inconsistent in their interpretations of contact and intent. I just can't get worked up over how random fouls, fines, and suspensions have been levied. AGAIN this is not some conspiracy against the Suns. The League, and by extension, the Commishes job is to make the Game as fun, competitive, and lucrative as possible. You don't sell tickets by suspending players, and hamstringing teams. But you do enforce the rules. It is important to note that "the bench rule" was broached not just by the League, but by the teams as well. Not because teams can't rely on grown men to control themselves, but so that there is a uniform disciplinary process wherein there cannot be a hint of impropriety. At least that was the intent. The teams can very easily vote to get rid of, or alter the language of the rule during the off-season. Last year some dude reached between Chris Kamans legs (from behind), grabbed his sack and proceeded to try to rip it off. He didn't get suspended either. That was Reggie Evans, and while he wasn't suspended, he was fined $10,000.

posted by lilnemo at 01:50 PM on May 16

Last year some dude reached between Chris Kamans legs (from behind), grabbed his sack and proceeded to try to rip it off. I was involved in an informal photo caption contest (via back-and-forth e-mails) for a pic of that event. Here are the top entries (you can probably imagine the photo without my posting it): a) "Two Nuts Battle Over Two Nuts" b) "Kaman: I’m Glad Evans Isn’t a Clipper" c) “Evans Gets Hard Lesson in ‘What Rocky Mountain Oysters Aren’t’” d) “Evans Finds His Stroke, Kaman Grateful There Was No Backcourt Violation” e) Evans pulls down a "Single-Double" f) "Two balls high and inside -- Evans' reaches base" g) "Kaman calls foul on ballhandling skills" h) “Evans Sacked After Ball Handling Fiasco” i) From the Dr. Seuss Gazette: "Bad 'Nads Grab Has Lads Mad" j) “Clippers Drop a Pair to Nuggets in Win” k) "Denver player Reggie Evans, taking his team's nickname literally, stakes a claim on Chris Kaman's Nuggets---Unfortunately, things didn't pan out for the home squad." We now return you to the suspension discussion, already in progress.

posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 02:33 PM on May 16

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