04/23/24
August 29, 2002
Champions League: Where the best in Europe come to play.: The groups have been drawn, and it looks like a fairly balanced distribution. The English teams (Man. U., Newcastle, Liverpool, Arsenal) fared pretty well; they were kept apart and out of "ghastly" Group G, which includes Bayern Munich and AC Milan.
posted by worldcup2002 to soccer at 06:32 PM - 12 comments
and, uh, duh, UEFA, not EUFA. sorry.
posted by Ufez Jones at 12:30 AM on August 30, 2002
The English clubs can be reasonable satisfied. All four of them have a good chance to progress to the second stage. It's a shame that Celtic couldn't beat Basle, since Basle were drawn in the same group as Liverpool. For some reason, Celtic and Liverpool have close ties, but I'm not sure why. Sectarianism isn't part of the English game and Liverpool are not noted as a Catholic club. I'll pay more attention to the Champions League next year when West Bromwich Albion make their debut. Or I wake up, whichever comes first. :-)
posted by salmacis at 04:58 AM on August 30, 2002
salmacis: re close Liverpool and Celtic ties ... Maybe it's cos Dalglish played for both. Just a silly guess. Ufez: Thanks for the nice words. As for my handle, I think it'll age nicely. It'll help me remember in, say, 2050, when it was I joined SpoFi. :)
posted by worldcup2002 at 09:40 AM on August 30, 2002
May the best team win Ufez ;) I'm going to have fun with AS Roma (who as a team, really get on my nerves) against Real Madrid and the man that got me interested in footie in the first place.
posted by romakimmy at 10:47 AM on August 30, 2002
heh, romakimmy. You're on! Nothing like a good internet based rivalry, eh?
posted by Ufez Jones at 11:32 AM on August 30, 2002
Liverpool all the way, baby! I wonder if they'll meet up with Ajax, now that Litmanen has returned there. He was a magical player, even in his sporadic appearances for the Reds.
posted by worldcup2002 at 11:56 AM on August 30, 2002
Salmacis! More on the Liverpool-Celtic connection. Your comment got me interested and Google led me to this article. The article also mentions that Liverpool has the oldest Chinese community in Europe as well as a 200-yr-old Black community.
"I think Liverpool is like a small independent state that’s got a relationship with the mother body that has always been troublesome. This city is a Celtic kingdom with a ferocious sense of independence. This overwhelming, almost crushing identity, I suspect originates in what was the greatest natural disaster of the nineteenth century - this terrible famine."I guess one should expect a famous port city to have international links of this sort.
posted by worldcup2002 at 12:40 PM on August 30, 2002
And, while I'm on the subject, here's a soccer-related paean to the Celtic-Liverpool connection, written in a rollicking, heartfelt manner by a Scouser. Lots more good fodder, not all footy-related, for the strong ties. I was almost moved to tears, both by the laughter and the love.
posted by worldcup2002 at 12:52 PM on August 30, 2002
The odd thing about the Liverpool-Celtic ties is that Everton is still considered the 'Catholic' club of the city. Modern history of signings makes that seem counterintuitive (and you think 'bluenose' for each...) but that was confirmed to me by a good mate who's an Everton fan. As for the Champions League: thank goodness the second group stage is set to go next year, meaning that it'll be two-leg knockout from the last 16. A step away from the European league, and a smart move too, as the attendences alone proved that there was no appetite for the 'dead games' of the group phases. Oh, and I can't help but feel a little aggrieved that the Man Utds and Newcastles have knocked out actual league champions, when I don't think they should even be in the competition. In the past, the UEFA Cup was interesting because it tended to feature clubs that were on the rise, when the European Cup often had champions who had peaked the season before. But with the current setup, it does seem to be just a bit same-old-same-old for the later rounds. Just as the Brazilian team lost some of its magic when the top players started playing in Europe, rather than only appearing, it seemed, for the World Cup, the magic of 'European night' has diminished somewhat when Man Utd vs. Bayern Munich becomes a twice-yearly occurrence. (Rather like the impact of interleague play on Major League Baseball, I imagine.)
posted by etagloh at 08:28 AM on August 31, 2002
Found this on the Guardian site: This week there's been tonnes more correspondence about Liverpool being a Protestant club and Everton being Catholic. Thanks to everyone who wrote in. Our favourite anecdote comes from Dr C.P. Bailey of the Albert Einstein College of Medicine in the Bronx. He says one of his Grandad's favourite stories was that "when he married my Nana in the 20s, he had to renounce Catholicism (she was Protestant), and thereby severing all ties with his family. When asked to change is football team to Liverpool from Everton, however, he told his future in-laws where to go. He did get to marry my Liverpudlian Grandma, but remained a proud Evertonian!" he says. However Sam Johnstone of the Football Research Unit at Liverpool University says those speculating on the origins of the Liverpool-Everton, Protestant-Catholic thing are talking nonsense. "Both clubs were founded by the same people (essentially the wealthy, protestant middle classes of 19th-century Liverpool) from the same church (St Domingo's, a protestant church)," he says. "The story of Liverpool's formation is familiar to all. Everton were formed in 1878, team falls out with John Houlding (the guy who owns Anfield), Houlding forms Liverpool FC in 1892, the rest we know about. What is more interesting is the involvement of the Masons. The guys who formed LFC and EFC were wealthy, middle class, protestant, businessmen and, importantly, pillars of the political and religious establishment (Houlding went on to become Lord Mayor of Liverpool). Freemasonry attracted these very people (for many reasons) and it is known that Houlding and his friend W. Barclay were in the Lodge. "And, of course, this was repeated nationwide. For those teams that didn't come specifically from the Catholic church (Celtic), it was likely that the factory and mill owners were involved in charitable organisations, religion and politics (all masonic activities). It is no coincidence that the meeting that led to the formation of the FA took place in a pub called the Freemason's Tavern. Or am I just a conspiracy theorist?"
posted by Fat Buddha at 12:56 PM on August 31, 2002
etagloh: I disagree with you about allowing non-Champions into the Champions League. A competition to determine to best team in Europe should have all the best teams competing in it. The fact that both Manchester United and Newcastle United knocked out league champions only illustrates how the calibre of the tournament has improved. In the past, the UEFA Cup often looked as strong as the European Cup. These days the winners of the Champions League are unambiguously the best team in Europe. I don't see why it is supposed to be boring when Manchester United seemingly play Bayern every year, yet it not boring when Tottenham play Everton every year.
posted by salmacis at 04:57 AM on September 01, 2002
I love love love European club cups (champs league and eufa). I dig Newcastle's chance, and find it cool that they're playing Juventus (see my profile). I'm looking forward to trying to catch the games. Thanks for helping a helpless U.S.'n, worldcup. (btw, what the hell are you going to do with your handle now that the WC2002 is over?)