11/05/24
August 30, 2006
Pavano rankles all involved: The Yankees explore voiding Pavano's contract - putting aside the fact that this is about the Yankees, I think the most important question is this - does any team have the right to explore this option if it is apparent the player just doesn't want to play for them? Is not coming forward about a car accident "conduct detrimental to the team"? Plus, how do you come back when your own teammates are laughing at you? Interesting....
posted by The Gangstinator to baseball at 10:34 AM - 32 comments
Jgirl: The "Pavano doesn't want to play for the Yankees" angle is the latest drum being beaten by the NY media. It crops up at least once a month, especially when a Yankee pitcher is hurting or goes to the DL. I think the straw that broke this story was when Pavano was sidelined from spring training for a "bruised buttocks." That led to his elbow bone-chip problem, which was just about over when this car accident came to light. Personally, I think it's not farfetched. When Pavano went south last season, before his shoulder injury, he was getting booed a lot. Since then, the series of injuries have been pretty mild to keep a guy out for over a year. I believe when Pavano signed with the Yanks he saw how great it would be to pitch well and be a star in pinstripes, but he didn't think about what might happen if he didn't pitch well, and I think the boos rattled him quite a bit. The guy has never been a rock, but this year it's easy to draw the conclusion that fear is playing a role.
posted by BullpenPro at 11:28 AM on August 30, 2006
I think the likelihood that his contract is voided is slim to none. I just don't see the players association letting that happen. Pavano is really just an expensive mistake for the Yankees and a sunk cost at this point. Yes, the injuries have been a killer, but they overpaid for him based on a good year in Florida in which his most visible stats (wins, ERA) were very good but his peripherals were iffy.
posted by holden at 11:35 AM on August 30, 2006
Ah ok. I guess I should have taken up the telemarketer's offer of 7 days of the NY Post at a low low price last night instead of saying, "I live in Boston. Why do I want a NY paper?" and hanging up. Didn't the Toronto media do the same thing with Burnett?
posted by jerseygirl at 11:37 AM on August 30, 2006
I just feel that when you got a guy like Johnny Damon, who has been busting his @$$ big time despite having a broken bone and his foot, among other problems, and playing as much as he possibly can, you have to question Pavano, and his minor injuries that have been keeping him out for over a year. If Brad Radke can pitch through a severely torn labrum until the end of the year when he will retire, there is no reason why Carl couldn't work through a "strained buttocks". Everytime this guy goes to do his rehab, something else comes up. At least when you take a Mark Prior, who is also consistantly injured, you can see that he is trying, because he constantly is coming back to pitch in big league games. Trying to make it work. Pavano hasn't even done that yet.
posted by The Gangstinator at 11:40 AM on August 30, 2006
I get what you are saying and where your frustration is at, but the examples given are kind of off a little. The aspect of toughing it out, though, that point is made. The rub is, toughing it out can work in the short term, but hurt you in the future. Schilling toughed it out in 04 and the team lost him for just about all of 05. Risk worth the reward? Sure. But the Yankees have won the AL East and are doing well without Pavano. It's different - Boston goes no where in the post without Schilling. Damon has/had a chipped bone in his foot, which is different than a broken bone. And if Radke is retiring at the end of the year, it's kind of an "all or nothing" situation isn't it? Pavano's not at the end of his career.
posted by jerseygirl at 11:49 AM on August 30, 2006
OK, there's something that I don't understand about this whole thing. First of all, the accident was Porsche vs Garbage Truck. Unless Pavano was driving at an insane rate of speed, there's no way a Porsche can do that kind of damage (20K) to a garbage truck. If indeed the Porsche did hit the truck that hard, there would have been a lot more damage to the Porsche and especially to Carl Pavano. 30K is a scratch on the fender to one of those things. It sounds to me like the truck driver has figured out who hit him, and has gotten an ambulance chaser to see how much he can make out of the deal. Pavano needs a good attorney more than he needs the approbation of his teammates. By the way, if I have offended any member of the legal profession with the term "ambulance chaser", please understand that it is intentional. Of course, I didn't think it was possible to offend a lawyer. PS: jerseygirl, if you live in Boston, you already have a New York newspaper.
posted by Howard_T at 11:55 AM on August 30, 2006
OK, there's something that I don't understand about this whole thing. What don't you understand exactly? You seem to have mastered all of the obvious points.
posted by jerseygirl at 11:58 AM on August 30, 2006
I get what you are saying and where your frustration is at, but the examples given are kind of off a little. Maybe you're right, but I think the Mark Prior comparison works well. That's a guy that really wants to make it work and just is burdened by bad luck. Look at this year. He comes off the DL, throws 6 hitless innings against my Mets, leaves because he is on a pitch count, and shortly thereafter is sidelined again. I haven't seen one bit of the same drive in Carl Pavano. To get back to my original point, if Pavano hides an injury he sustained because of a car accident he was at fault for, all while he is on rehab for a strained buttocks and bone chips? This after elbow surgery. Which was after he said his shoulder hurt. Which convieniently came after he was getting booed off the mound because he was failing to justify a 10 Mil per salary. Once I read that, I start to feel bad for A-Rod. At least he's out there like a man, taking the boos.
posted by The Gangstinator at 12:08 PM on August 30, 2006
Once I read that, I start to feel bad for A-Rod. Now I know you're being facetious. I don't think Aaron Boone compariosns are fair. Boone took part in a pick up basketball, while on the surface it doesn't seem that sinister, it does open himself up to a greater risk of injury. Pavano is not a medical professional and would have no idea what the extent of his injuries could be. If he feels well enough to give it go then thats his (albiet misinformed) call to make. Take from someone who has been in more car accidents than a stunt driver, after you have a car wreck you cannot assess the extent of your injuries. I have some pretty bad injuries and turned down medical attention at the scene because of the post accident rush.
posted by HATER 187 at 12:50 PM on August 30, 2006
I don't see how anyone can feel sorry, or struggle for understanding, for Pavano or the Yankees. These kind of things can cripple other teams - Cubs and Red Sox included - and it really just doesn't matter to NY. What pressure is Pavano under? Fucking none as far as I can tell. Watch them go get David Wells, you know, just in case a gargolye falls on Scott Proctor or something equally stupefying. Who cares if Pavano ever comes back? He's not needed and never has been. It would be a slightly different looking rotation with him, but my guess is the Yanks may be able to overcome this and, you know, win the World Series.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 12:53 PM on August 30, 2006
I don't see how anyone can feel sorry, or struggle for understanding, for Pavano or the Yankees. I don't think anybody was. These kind of things can cripple other teams - Cubs and Red Sox included - and it really just doesn't matter to NY. Disagree. It doesn't matter as much; they find more ways to work around it. But it's not without impact or cost. What pressure is Pavano under? Fucking none as far as I can tell. Hey, I'll go with that, but it's not because the team is doing okay without him. It's because he's got a contract and he's got a perpetual doctor's note and he doesn't give a tinker's dam how the team is doing. Watch them go get David Wells, you know, just in case a gargolye falls on Scott Proctor or something equally stupefying. Having signed that fat fool once, I can't imagine being stupid enough to do it again. I don't care if he's still got some good games in him (and he did against NY recently, and should have won too), he's still a fat fool and he's going to keep hurting his back unless he gets rid of that bay window. Who cares if Pavano ever comes back? He's not needed and never has been. It would be a slightly different looking rotation with him, but my guess is the Yanks may be able to overcome this and, you know, win the World Series. A-men. He'd just be a distraction now.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 01:15 PM on August 30, 2006
Take from someone who has been in more car accidents than a stunt driver Thankfully, I'm one of the few who hasn't been involved in a wreck with you. But all the same, if you get into a car accident, basically as the property of a major league baseball team, it is your duty to let your manager and general manager know, so you could get a thorough examination. Pavano was probably hoping the pain would go away so he could save himself the embarassment. Unfortunately, if it didn't, he ran the risk of embarassing himself further if he went that way, and that is ultimately what happened.
posted by The Gangstinator at 01:16 PM on August 30, 2006
1. Having signed that fat fool once, I can't imagine being stupid enough to do it again. Because what did Wells ever do when he was with the Yankees? 2. I just feel that when you got a guy like Johnny Damon . . . you have to question Pavano, and his minor injuries that have been keeping him out for over a year Rasputin the Monk supposedly survived being shot, stabbed and drowned. Why not use that as your apples-to-oranges baseline? 3. there's no way a Porsche can do that kind of damage (20K) to a garbage truck I have no idea what a garbage truck costs, how bout you? Low demand curves often mean high prices. Also, there's a good chance a Porsche is low enough to slide under, where it could do some solid damage.
posted by yerfatma at 01:46 PM on August 30, 2006
If we could get a copy of the police or accident report, now we're talking.
posted by jerseygirl at 01:56 PM on August 30, 2006
Rasputin the Monk supposedly survived being shot, stabbed and drowned. Why not use that as your apples-to-oranges baseline? Apples to Oranges? Not really. Instead of trying to sound smarter than me, why not try this: Instead of picking apart my point, why don't you offer one of your own? Are you telling me that the New York media is just stirring up controversy, and that there is no validity to the idea that Carl Pavano is crying injury because he doesn't want to pitch for the Yankees anymore? If so, why do you feel that way? Let's have a real conversation here.
posted by The Gangstinator at 01:59 PM on August 30, 2006
Because what did Wells ever do when he was with the Yankees? I hear the Red Sox are in discussions with Bruce Hurst and Bill Monbouquette.
posted by BullpenPro at 02:02 PM on August 30, 2006
Are you telling me that the New York media is just stirring up controversy, and that there is no validity to the idea that Carl Pavano is crying injury because he doesn't want to pitch for the Yankees anymore? If so, why do you feel that way? You say that as if you don't believe the media would do such a thing, to sell papers and attain listeners and every word they say - assumption or otherwise - is gospel. ... Oh.
posted by jerseygirl at 02:06 PM on August 30, 2006
Are you telling me that the New York media is just stirring up controversy This voiding the contract thing always seems to come out in the NY media. Kevin Brown...Jason Giambi...Aaron Boone, nothing ever seems to come of it. (oh wait, I think they actually did void Aaron Boone's contract, sorry bout that Aaron. You'll always have ESPN to keep your legacy alive)
posted by YukonGold at 02:12 PM on August 30, 2006
You say that as if you don't believe the media would do such a thing, to sell papers and attain listeners and every word they say - assumption or otherwise - is gospel. No. Just because everyone wants you to buy a paper, tune in to their radio show, or watch them on TV, that doesn't mean that valid points don't come up every now and then.
posted by The Gangstinator at 02:27 PM on August 30, 2006
This totally opens the door for the Blue Jays to take the East.
posted by chicobangs at 02:49 PM on August 30, 2006
Are you telling me that the New York media is just stirring up controversy, and that there is no validity to the idea that Carl Pavano is crying injury because he doesn't want to pitch for the Yankees anymore? Oh great thanks. You just killed Irony. Shot him right in the head.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 03:05 PM on August 30, 2006
Now that would be entertaining.
posted by jerseygirl at 03:06 PM on August 30, 2006
the Blue Jays winning, that is.
posted by jerseygirl at 03:19 PM on August 30, 2006
I heard Pavano rankled Alyssa Milano, if you get my drift.
posted by holden at 03:38 PM on August 30, 2006
Instead of trying to sound smarter than me, why not try this: Instead of picking apart my point, why don't you offer one of your own? A. Who's trying? B. Now we're not allowed to address other's assertions? That should lead to a more perfect form of "debate" on the Internet, where we all openly agree we're here to vent our spleens and not listen to others. My point, reductio ad absurdum as it may be, was the fact Johnny Damon plays through the pains he has doesn't really mean much about Carl Pavano. Pavano may be a horse or a goldbricker, but Damon's performance is irrelevant.
posted by yerfatma at 03:55 PM on August 30, 2006
reductio ad absurdum I tried those when I was trying to quit smoking and got cross addicted.
posted by Termite at 04:27 PM on August 30, 2006
Let's have a real conversation here. This would be possible with less editorializing in the FPP.
posted by lilnemo at 05:43 PM on August 30, 2006
This would be possible with less editorializing in the FPP. What lilnemo said.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 06:32 PM on August 30, 2006
To all of those who made serious comments on this thread, I apologize for the following. OK, guys, you really got me going on this one. I haven't laughed as much at a thread since the Irish Road Bowling post. If SpoFi is meant for entertainment, keep it up. Of course, it is probably meant for serious sports discussions, but who among us can resist taking a good shot when it presents itself.
posted by Howard_T at 08:32 AM on August 31, 2006
Pavano's shoulder hurts now. If the Pavano story is really just media sensationalism, it is really sensational sensationalism.
posted by BullpenPro at 09:43 AM on August 31, 2006
This would be possible with less editorializing in the FPP. what Miz Bat said.
posted by chicobangs at 11:29 AM on August 31, 2006
I don't think causing upwards of $50k in damage and opening yourself up to a personal injury lawsuit automatically equals "player just doesn't want to play for them" really. I really don't know where or on what you're forming that stretch of an assumption. Without question, withholding any information is detrimental to the team, but this isn't the first spin around that block for the Yankees as far as player injuries and the exploration of voiding contracts. They were in this very same expensive boat when Giambi was floundering with his "parasite" and even to a degree with Aaron Boone too.