August 20, 2002

Red card withdrawn after the game.: Birmingham's Aliou Cisse got sent off in Sunday's game vs Arsenal. Television replays showed there was clearly no contact between him and the allegedly fouled Ashley Cole. The referee agreed, after a post-match television review, and has withdrawn the second yellow card, saving Cisse a one-game suspension. Now, this is a fine decision, especially for Birmingham fans (even if they did still end up playing with 10 men and losing the game 2-0), but is the Premiership heading down the road to in-game video reviews by officials? How often have video reviews resulted in sending-offs being overturned? Also, in this case, should Ashley Cole get a yellow for "simulation"?

posted by worldcup2002 to soccer at 02:44 PM - 13 comments

I don't think in-game video reviews will be adapted anytime soon - somehow it just doesn't seem compatible with soccer (and it would make the game a lot less flowing, which would be a real bad thing). And as for Ashley Cole - having seen the situation - I don't really think he dived, so I don't see any reason he should be punished. In fact, I think that post-game punishments should only be given in extreme cases (like Keane/Haaland), where everyone can agree that something should be done. Otherwise teams who are punished will complain that worse offences go unpunished (like Arsenal/Vieira for the past two seasons), and a lot of needless controversy will be generated.

posted by jipe at 03:53 PM on August 20, 2002

Well I think Birmingham should have been given the points, we were definitely just about to mount a comeback. Cole has been implicated in at least 5 sendings off in a year, 2 of which have now been rescinded. I was outraged at at the antics of Rivaldo in the world cup and thought he should have got a ban, Coles actions were no differentl really, it was blatant cheating. It had no impact on the result, the Blues were getting well and truly schooled, but that is beside the point, the cheating little shit should be punished. I see no reason not to use video evidence during games for crucial decisions like that or dodgy offsides or goals. The really crucial occasions are few and far between and football fans are patient. It would add to, rather than detract from the drama.

posted by Fat Buddha at 05:21 PM on August 20, 2002

Oh God no... We had enough of this crap at the World Cup. Bad calls are made, that's the nature of the game. I was only saying the other day about how soccer has remained mostly unchanged for a century. If they go with this, they've just ruined the bloody game. What next? Instant replay? The call upstairs. ERK! As for Rivaldo, he's scum and got away with it. I LOATHE HIM! Leave the game as is. I'm sure if you examine it from a distance, for the amount of bad calls against, you get a similar number for.

posted by Drood at 06:43 PM on August 20, 2002

Well there's a difference between correcting bad calls via video during the game and after the game. I'm fine for them reviewing things after the game and changing cards, fining poor decisions by refs... Actually, it wasn't until I typed this in that I realized how much something like this could undermine the players respect of referees. So I'm going to contradict my first paragraph :) Either the refs word is law or it isn't. Maybe. I dunno. How's that for a comment?

posted by elsoltano at 07:11 PM on August 20, 2002

Instant replay sure would hurt Korea's chances, though.

posted by insomnyuk at 09:26 PM on August 20, 2002

I'll admit that I don't know very much about futbol (middle ground, eh?), but what is the effect of withdrawing the red card? It's all good and well for player stats, but the effect on the game must be large. I'd have to agree that instant replay would hurt the game, but there has to be consequences. Should refs who make bad calls be fined? Suspended? This seems to be a case of implied contact. Judging the level of contact on a tackle has to be rough. So what do we do? In the NBA, players constantly overact to draw charges even when contact is not made. The big question is how do we control officiating in ANY sport. The refs have a hard job, but they volunteered for it. I propose that every sport hire an auditing agency. 2 points per terrible call. 5 bad calls a season and you get disciplinary action (suspension, retraining, pelted with bottles ala Cleveland). I absolutelty hate the fact that some officials believe that they are as important to the game as players.

posted by ttrendel at 12:29 AM on August 21, 2002

In defense of the referee, I'd have to say this is not a case of bad refereeing, nor is it unusual for referees to be "unsighted" (i.e., obstructed by players, goalposts, at a bad angle) and to be occasionally duped by players. In addition, the referee in this case was big enough to allow for a review of the incident in question, admit that a mistake was made, and correct it. A mistake that is not uncommon, for the reasons stated above, and far less frequently reviewed. I think the referee should be applauded for his actions. The real villain, if any, in this case might be Ashley Cole. btw, does the Premiership have the same strict approach and penalties against "simulation" as those implemented in the World Cup?

posted by worldcup2002 at 01:01 AM on August 21, 2002

Yep fair play to the ref for changing his mind. It was a first class piece of schmoozing by the Birmingham manager, Steve Bruce, who, rather than going into rant mode, assured the world that Mike Riley was a good ref and that he would do the right thing once he had reviewed the evidence. The effect of rescinding the card is that Cisse will not now be banned, so the team do not get punished twice over. Good job too, he is clearly our best player.

posted by Fat Buddha at 03:00 AM on August 21, 2002

Rugby League has an interesting way of dealing with situations in which the referee believe foul play might have occurred, but isn't 100% certain. The referee can place players "on report", which means that the referee will look at the incident on video after the game. Maybe that can be incorporated into football? After all, it's only a couple of years ago that football borrowed the rule from Rugby Union that moves a free kick forward 10 yards in the case of dissent.

posted by salmacis at 03:27 AM on August 21, 2002

salamcis: Good idea, but it must not interfere with the flow of play! If we're going to have a situation where referees can rescind their decision on red cards, we should also have a situtation where yellow and red cards can be awarded post-game. Especially post-game cards for "simulation", as this is spoiling football.

posted by BigCalm at 09:07 AM on August 21, 2002

btw, Cole was just absolved of any guilt by the FA. "The FA can confirm that further to Mike Riley's decision to review his decision on the Aliou Cisse tackle that led to his dismissal on Sunday, no action will be taken against Arsenal's Ashley Cole, who was involved in the challenge with Cisse." Seems a fair enough call. Tho we're no fans of "simulation", I don't think anyone wants to see match disputes turn into protracted post-match legal battles. I think that, to address match incidents beyond the current situation, is to walk down a slippery road to all-out litigation between teams. This sort of review is as far as it should go. Then, of course, there's the case of people like Roy Keane, who don't even bother to deny wrongdoing, but publish a book that documents malicious intent, and serialize it in newspapers before the book is released. In that case, they're just asking for it.

posted by worldcup2002 at 11:47 AM on August 21, 2002

It's only a matter of time before something like this ends up in court, when a red card or a disputed penalty costs a team its place in the top division, or in a cup competition. And the repercussions of such a thing on the game are chilling to imagine. ttrendal: in the long run, suspensions can be more costly than red cards within the course of a single match. And I think Mike Riley will be refereeing Nationwide League matches as a punishment, which raises another gripe: why should lower-league teams have the dubious honour of hosting the 'punishment' matches of fallible or under-performing refs, when a repeat performance might damage their prospects? Do MLB umps who screw up calls get sent down to the minors, too?

posted by etagloh at 05:29 PM on August 21, 2002

I saw that crap, Ashley Cole is a fucking diver...Cisse didn't even touch him! What a piece of shit Cole is... And then he lies about it too saying he didn't dive...god damn punk...isn't he only like 21 years old!? Why the fuck would he do something like this!?

posted by StarFucker at 01:51 PM on August 22, 2002

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