11/05/24
January 13, 2006
Miller DQ'd near finish line of Swiss race.: Double-vision is a bitch when you're trying to run gates. Way to represent, Bode!
And Miller fails to finish in a lot of races. I don't think he knows the meaning of the word "careful."
posted by Amateur at 09:45 AM on January 13, 2006
I understand missing gates. Believe me, I've clipped enough gates myself to know what it's like to go down the course backwards with one ski on. It's a hard enough thing to do and do well sober (especially at his level) without running gates under the influence. Racing is fun. Having a few cervezas on the slopes with my buddies is fun. Combining the two, probably not so good. RADS - Racers Against Drunk Skiing
posted by woody1090 at 10:02 AM on January 13, 2006
See young fans honesty gets you DQ'd and rehab maybe.
posted by kosmicdebris at 10:05 AM on January 13, 2006
Then what's with the link title? Bode admitted to partying all night after winning the World Cup title and then racing the next day, not racing regularly under the influence.
posted by garfield at 10:06 AM on January 13, 2006
I don't honestly believe that he was blitzed while racing. I would like to think that he has better judgement than that. I just like to razz people. If I had just won the WC, I would be up all night partying myself.
posted by woody1090 at 10:24 AM on January 13, 2006
Fair enough. I just want Bode to get a fair shake now that he has entered American discourse.
posted by garfield at 10:26 AM on January 13, 2006
garfield: Then what's with the link title? Bode admitted to partying all night after winning the World Cup title and then racing the next day, not racing regularly under the influence. woody: I don't honestly believe that he was blitzed while racing. I would like to think that he has better judgement than that. I just like to razz people. If I had just won the WC, I would be up all night partying myself. Then why say it? Clearly, if you've been following the news, that "razzing" is more along the line of slander than teasing. It's bullshit and there's been quite enough of it. You working for the Austrians, Woody? Bad choice of link title. Back to the subject of the link, being "DQ'ed" in a ski race simply means that you failed to stay on course. Nine other racers DQ'ed in this particular race, including the USA's Daron Rahlves, Mario Matt of Austria, and Italy's Giorgio Rocca. However, in most cases it's pretty unambiguous, whereas there may be some question in Bode's case (he didn't hook or straddle the gate). If they rummage through the rule book and it turns out that Bode has a case, it might be worth it to pursue the matter, given that there are a hundred points at stake. Knowing Bode, though, he might not want to bother. (and wouldn't it be the grand ultimate kick in the head if he won the Lauberhorn???)
posted by lil_brown_bat at 10:35 AM on January 13, 2006
You working for the Austrians, Woody? Its all fun and games until someone gets accused of shushing with the Austrians.
posted by chris2sy at 11:09 AM on January 13, 2006
What's wrong with the link title? According to the story I just read, Miller was "DQ'd near finish line of Swiss race" - not because he was pissed of course, but woody1090 didn't say he was. I did like his (Miller's) statement to the press yesterday though: "The most important thing is that I wanted to come straight out and apologise to mostly my family, friends. But also we have a lot of people who supported me along the way, through my team and even just family and friends who have supported me, who I think are subject to only what the media puts out in America. And because of the way I made those comments it caused a lot of confusion and pain for all those people and that's nothing I want to do so firstly I'd like to apologise to them." That's up there with the Queen's comments when Diana died for sincerity. Doesn't at all sound like he was told to say sorry and shoved in front of a camera.
posted by JJ at 11:17 AM on January 13, 2006
What's wrong with the link title? Sorry, I was thinking about: Double-vision is a bitch when you're trying to run gates. Way to represent, Bode! Given recent events, that's irresponsible. Doesn't at all sound like he was told to say sorry and shoved in front of a camera. Of course not; that wouldn't have worked. If Marolt had tried that, Bode would have told him to go fuck himself. I think Bode is sincerely sorry about the way that he let CBS take advantage of him and thereby cause trouble for others, and he was quite willing to apologize for that.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 11:25 AM on January 13, 2006
lbb, I think you missed JJ's point (I think I read some British sarcasm in there). Anyway, as your comments restate, Miller is quite clearly not sorry for skiing while drunk. He may be sorry that he said anything about it, though.
posted by Amateur at 11:38 AM on January 13, 2006
Last time I checked this was a Sports Blog, not a national news publication. The incinuation that someone is irresponsible while posting to a blog is ludicrous. It's a shame Bode got DQ'd at all, when he wins or does well it tends to piss the rest of the skiing world off.
posted by stockman at 11:41 AM on January 13, 2006
agreed stockman. no more blog-nazis. it was clearly just a jab, not to be taken seriously after reading the article. you did read the article, didn't you lbb?
posted by ninjavshippo at 11:55 AM on January 13, 2006
Amateur: lbb, I think you missed JJ's point (I think I read some British sarcasm in there). Probably, but what JJ said sarcastically happens to be true, IMO. Anyway, as your comments restate, Miller is quite clearly not sorry for skiing while drunk. If Miller had said he was sorry for skiing drunk, it would have been like you saying you were sorry for beating your wife. He never said he skied drunk; he skied with a hangover. That's what the whole flap was about: he made a statement about skiing with a hangover, and CBS, in their press release, said that he'd skied drunk. It's too bad that even after he's issued multiple clarifications, the facts are still being misrepresented. stockman: Last time I checked this was a Sports Blog, not a national news publication. The incinuation that someone is irresponsible while posting to a blog is ludicrous. Okay, I'll give you the "irresponsible", if you don't like the word. Nevertheless, when someone decides to put their own spin in a FPP, rather than simply representing whatever it is they're linking to, they often get called on it. Plenty of precedent there, ludicrous or otherwise. ninjavshippo: agreed stockman. no more blog-nazis. BZZT! You lose! you did read the article, didn't you lbb? I read the article, other articles on the same event, and the results analysis on the FIS website. Want links?
posted by lil_brown_bat at 12:03 PM on January 13, 2006
Okay, lbb, so this direct quote used in the Sports Illustrated article link in our earlier discussion: "Talk about a hard challenge right there. ... If you ever tried to ski when you're wasted, it's not easy," Miller told 60 Minutes for a segment that will air Sunday. ...was not accurate? 60 Minutes misquoted something Miller said on camera?
posted by wfrazerjr at 12:17 PM on January 13, 2006
Perhaps he was nudged a little bit, to say something that resembled an apology.
posted by tselson at 12:18 PM on January 13, 2006
It's too bad that even after he's issued multiple clarifications, the facts are still being misrepresented. lbb, are you saying that he denied skiing drunk? If so, then please point me to some reference to the multiple clarifications. (I'm not being an asshole; I've looked, and I haven't seen such a denial.) In the original 60 Minutes interview he said "if you ever tried to ski when you're wasted," and compared it to drinking and driving. In his statement yesterday, he clearly does not deny that he skied under the influence. I've trained hungover before. I was drunk, legally speaking. It would have been illegal for me to drive to practice. I categorically deny beating my wife.
posted by Amateur at 01:26 PM on January 13, 2006
hey he just needs to shut up all he did is hang himself....And all eyes arew on him now.. "what a dumbass!"
posted by Txwinner at 02:20 PM on January 13, 2006
lbb, are you saying that he denied skiing drunk? If so, then please point me to some reference to the multiple clarifications. (I'm not being an asshole; I've looked, and I haven't seen such a denial.) See here. In the original 60 Minutes interview he said "if you ever tried to ski when you're wasted," and compared it to drinking and driving. In his statement yesterday, he clearly does not deny that he skied under the influence. People don't routinely deny things that they didn't do (at least, not if they've got any self-respect, and Miller has that in spades). What he did do in that interview was talk about skiing in an impaired condition. Mind you, the word "impaired" existed long before it got coopted by sloppy users of the language to mean "drunk". It is quite clear, when you consider Bode's remarks in context, that he's referring to racing a slalom with a hangover, i.e., when one doesn't have all one's faculties about one; ironically, he seems to be pointing out that he thinks it's not a real good idea -- he's certainly not saying, "Wow, cool, go out and try this one, kids!" -- and for making that statement, he gets pilloried. In the Denver Post column, Miller said, "Being hung over is a form of impairment, though. It's really hard to race that way." He also said, "Racing downhill is different. You'd be insane to race at the speeds we achieve in downhill while impaired in any way. I never drink the night before a downhill." I've trained hungover before. I was drunk, legally speaking. It would have been illegal for me to drive to practice. I think you're humpty-dumptying the use of the word "hungover" here, a wee bit. How was the training, by the way? Eat any gates?
posted by lil_brown_bat at 02:32 PM on January 13, 2006
hey he just needs to shut up all he did is hang himself Yeah, look at how all his sponsors bailed. Really. Sarcasm off -- Bode's sponsors seem to regard this as much ado about nothing, a tempest in a teapot, etc. The European ones in particular (such as Barilla), are probably shaking their heads in amazement at the uptight Americans. Remember a guy named Alberto Tomba? Never a late night for him, nosirreebob!
posted by lil_brown_bat at 02:35 PM on January 13, 2006
He originally used the word 'wasted'. He just won the WC. He partied ALL night, i.e., hadn't slept much if at all, and was therefore wasted. "I stopped partying super late, and we raced at 10 a.m." Ok, let's give him the benefit of the doubt, and say he stopped drinking, super, heavily at 5 a.m. At 10 a.m., he was still drunk. Even he thinks he shouldn't have went through with the race, especially if it had been the downhill. 'Impaired' doesn't imply barely drunk. It runs the gamut from slightly impaired to totally shitfaced impaired.
posted by garfield at 02:44 PM on January 13, 2006
garfield, clearly there's no point in continuing this discussion. Let's just agree to disagree, 'kay? I don't agree that you own the meaning of those words. I don't agree that the words "wasted" and "impaired" only mean what you say they mean. Athletes use "wasted" to mean drunk, hung over, excessively tired, drained after a competition, etc. I don't agree -- because the words are simply not there -- that Bode was "drinking, super, heavily"; he just said he was drinking late. I don't agree that he was "still drunk" at 10 AM; you made that shit up, you weren't there having him blow into a balloon. Your remark about "especially if it had been a downhill" is completely off the wall; it wasn't a downhill, and as Miller said, he never drinks the night before a downhill. And while you're on his ass about competing in that slalom, I guess you missed the part where he a)almost won and b)never presented any hazard to himself or anyone else. On the other hand, in 2003, Swiss GS specialist Michael von Gruenigan decided to finish his ski racing career with a not-hung-over (uh...we think...who would know?) stunt at the last World Cup race, which is always a slalom. He competed using his father's old Swiss Army skis and boots, and wearing his father's army uniform, and couldn't stay in the course to save his life. Everyone laughed at that stunt, even though he presented much more of a risk to himself and others than Miller did in his "impaired" slalom -- for god's sake, no one would have known the guy was "impaired" if he'd never said anything. Everyone laughed then, just like all the Europeans are laughing now at the stick-up-the-ass Americans who are crucifying their best ski racer over something that European ski racers do All. The. Time. What a joke.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 03:03 PM on January 13, 2006
clearly
posted by garfield at 03:18 PM on January 13, 2006
Cut Bode some slack! He made an ill advised comment in front of the press. That's it! If you are trying to win races, you ski on the very edge of control. This means you lose control sometimes. The fact that Bode DQ's a lot means that he is going all out to win all of the time. He is also taking a greater risk of injury by doing so. I think U.S. skiers and fans can be proud that they have such a talented and dedicated skier, even if he is a little foolish and brash occaisionally.
posted by edlwhite at 04:50 PM on January 13, 2006
Good gravy. Bode can be allowed to be the butt of a few jokes without having subsequent allegations of slander (I mean, c'mon, let's not completely drive the perspective truck through the living room here) be levelled against the joker. Look how much extra interest is in skiing now, lbb - let's try to be positive here.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:10 PM on January 13, 2006
lbb, thanks for the link. It does clarify a lot of things that the 60 Minutes transcript (probably intentionally) left ambiguous. But I don't see what you're getting all fired up about. Truly. I did not (and garfield did not) make any criticism of Bode Miller in this thread. Personally, I don't think it's anybody's business whether he wants to party or not; and if he sometimes shows up hungover, that's OK with me. It's nothing that deserves our outrage. I guess we'll just agree to disagree about the (apparently very sensitive) meanings of a few words. A few times in my life, after a late night of drinking, I have gone to practice still "under the influence" or "impaired," if you and Bode prefer those words. It sounds like Miller did that at the World Cup finals, which again is really his own business as long as he doesn't violate FIS doping rules. Now, the fact that he decided to discuss that event on 60 Minutes shows some lack of judgement -- unless you believe his story that he "told them the story to test their integrity." The fact that he compared the 'challenge' of skiing wasted to drinking and driving shows poorer judgement still. But that's no reason to hang the guy. Anyway, I agree with you and garfield that the FPP was out of line.
posted by Amateur at 08:33 PM on January 13, 2006
Well, truth is, while nobody knows except the person inside his skull, Bode sometimes does thing that stir shit, and he has definitely been blinder than he has any right to be to the consequence (I'm not willing to believe that no one around him, his agent or coaches or whoever, is clued enough not to be warning him of this stuff). It's a subtle semantic shade o' gray, but I think he doesn't do them in order to stir shit -- for example, the doping comments he made about six months ago were, I believe, a sincere expression of something he does feel strongly about, and not just an attempt to get people riled up. Marolt and Co. are right about one thing: he's got to be aware of the fallout, and he's got to be willing to take the hits that come with choosing those battles, if he chooses them. Also, after competing in two Olympics and then going through the last three non-Olympic seasons in which he's become a star of the sport, Miller has no excuse not to realize how the US media would be paying attention to him at this point. I don't think he's playing it for attention, but I also don't think he's clueless. He doesn't care much, but he should care a little more than he does, if he's gonna be in this game. I, personally, think that Marolt could also have handled the situation much better: when the CEO publicly hammers on one of the worker ants for talking about doing something that all of 'em do, well, something's wrong with the system and overdue for a fixing. It's not just that the USSA's code of conduct is incredibly restrictive (it is), but that it's so completely at odds with what people actually do. It's a bad situation to have a set of rules that everyone regards as ridiculous and flouts constantly. But who knows? Maybe in that heart-to-heart, Marolt did some listening, too. However, y'all are right -- it does have people talking and paying attention, and while many people are making jokes, few people are seriously bent out of shape.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 03:18 PM on January 14, 2006
garfield, clearly there's no point in continuing this discussion. Let's just agree to disagree, 'kay? I don't agree that you own the meaning of those words. I don't agree that the words "wasted" and "impaired" only mean what you say they mean. LLB, I've known Garfield for years. If there's anyone who owns the words "wasted" and "impaired", it's him. When he says those words, he knows what they mean. Don't question it.
posted by Samsonov14 at 06:23 PM on January 14, 2006
LLB, I've known Garfield for years. If there's anyone who owns the words "wasted" and "impaired", it's him. Don't question it. Heh. Okay. I stand corrected. I'll have to take your word for it. (however, it does look like some uppity punk kid from New Hampshire owes garfield some royalties or something)
posted by lil_brown_bat at 06:24 PM on January 14, 2006
Nah, he's just a good Canadian guy stating a point.
posted by Samsonov14 at 06:28 PM on January 14, 2006
Missing a gate in slalom is a common occurrence, even for the starkly sober.