11/21/24
October 12, 2005
Nomar: 2 Postseason Saves: Garciaparra saves 2 from drowning.
posted by Bill Lumbergh to culture at 06:54 AM - 24 comments
This story is amazing. The fact that Nomar did not get injured doing this, absolutley amazing!
posted by Turbo at 08:14 AM on October 12, 2005
Turbo beat me to it.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:27 AM on October 12, 2005
Johnny O'Hara of Natick witnessed the incident from his boat. Isn't that where the Twinkie factory is in the Y2K episode of "Family Guy"? Freakin' schweet!
posted by wfrazerjr at 09:06 AM on October 12, 2005
If he had showed that kind of effort beforehand - we would have never traded him!!!!!
posted by sinisterfoot at 09:13 AM on October 12, 2005
He is a great guy and this doesn't suprise me in the least. Having met him during the season and having the chance to talk to him, he came off as a guy who is like anybody else. The smile you see is genuine and contagious! Saving anybody is in a way our resposibility and he showed and practiced his with quick thinking. I hope the Cubs are smart enough to do what the Red Sox were not and hold on to this guy if not just for what he brings to a team but also for what he brings to this city. As far as his outside baseball life, I salute and commend him for showing the human side of a professional sports star.
posted by melcarek69 at 11:08 AM on October 12, 2005
I like the fact that he still owns his Charlestown condo. Great job Nomie!
posted by usfbull at 11:12 AM on October 12, 2005
I hope the Cubs are smart enough to do what the Red Sox were not and hold on to this guy if not just for what he brings to a team but also for what he brings to this city. You're being sarcastic, right? Please tell me you were. Best thing the sox ever did was trade the guy. We happened to win, you know, the world series that year? Wonderful story, but if you think the sox did the wrong thing in trading him you weren't paying attention
posted by justgary at 12:12 PM on October 12, 2005
I wanted to make sure I had this straight. You're saying trading Nomar to the Cubs led to the Red Sox winning the World Series? Because you got back shortstop Orlando Cabrera from the Montreal Expos and first baseman Doug Mientkiewicz from the Twins, and gave up outfield prospect Matt Murton? I mean, I know Cabrera and Mientkiewicz were big helps down the stretch and all, but the Sox dealt away one of the top three shortstops in the game for two guys they let go after the season, and that was the best thing they ever did?
posted by wfrazerjr at 12:51 PM on October 12, 2005
Do you watch the sox wfrazerjr? I'm guessing you don't, because the days of nomar being one of the three best shortstops in the game are, and were, long gone. His hitting was down, he was awful in the field, he stayed injured, and he was a cancer in the clubhouse. And for the amount of money he wanted, compared to what he's given the cubs the last year and a half, it was a no brainer. Yes, it was a great move, and this comes from someone who thought nomar was the best thing since sliced bread for years. And no, the red sox didn't get a lot back, because by the time they traded him his value had dropped drastically.
posted by justgary at 01:02 PM on October 12, 2005
Not to mention Nomar went to Chicago and... spent a considerable amount of time on the DL last year. Boston - a decent SS = no World Series
posted by jerseygirl at 01:13 PM on October 12, 2005
I'm with Weedy...damn you Turbo!
posted by The_Black_Hand at 03:09 PM on October 12, 2005
I'm saying I think the Red Sox could have plugged just about anyone into the hole at shortstop and done just as well in the postseason. I'm also saying only getting two guys that you kept for three months is a pretty lousy return on an All-Star, especially since the Cubs knew they could sign him to a deal after the trade. Garciaparra's stats Yes, there was a marked drop-off in his batting average and OBP. Those numbers, however, stayed above .300 and .350, respectively, still better than the average shortstop. I don't see a big change in his defenseive range numbers, either, but those of you who watch every game would know that more accurately. As for "poison in the clubhouse" tag, the stuff I read from his teammates at the time of the deal didn't seem to be harsh or critical. So what was the big beef? The amount of time he was on the DL? I don't think I'm arguing so much about the trade itself -- he was hurt, a free agent, blah blah blah. I also know the team had to move on, especially in chasing the title that season. But Cabrera and Mientkiewicz for Nomar? Had he fallen that far? I'm just sensing this huge backlash against him ... and I'm not grasping how it was deserved. What am I missing?
posted by wfrazerjr at 04:01 PM on October 12, 2005
Wfrazierjr, you are right about Natick. There's a Hostess factory there, not just in the world of Family Guy, but in the real world as well. Roll your windows down when you're driving past it (say, on Flutie Pass) and delicious smells will waft through your car... ...well, if it's still operational. I haven't lived in Mass. for about 7 years so my information could be out of date. Wfrazierjr, you're dead wrong with your take on the Nomar trade. Any Red Sox fan worth his salt credits this trade as an integral part of the WS title last year, and most would agree that no trade = no title. After the acquisition of those two defensive wizards, the Sox went on a huge winning streak, fixed their massive defensive problems, etc. Compare Nomar's play over the last season-and-a-half to Cabrera's (wish we still had OC) and Mientkiewicz's defense to Millar/Ortiz's. (I think the D. Roberts acquisition gets mistakenly lumped in here sometimes.) Or, alternatively, compare last October's Sox defense to this October's -> one team run out in the first round, the other won it all. Letting those guys go after the season may not have been too wise, but the trade for them was pure genius. The results speak for themselves. The best move the Sox ever made? maybe not. But one of the best.
posted by Venicemenace at 04:07 PM on October 12, 2005
While I agree that Nomar was on the dl for several months this year, he came back and batted well over .300 with 8 home runs and played a very nice 3rd base for a first timer. What did Edgar Renteria do this year? Where is Orlando Cabrera? I would much rather have a part time Nomar that nearly any ss in baseball. When Edgar moves on from Boston who will remember that ss that played the spot after Cabrera {although most forgot that already!}? NOBODY! The reason being that Nomar had etched his spot in Boston history. Oh by the way, what did Orlando have to do with your World Series win again? I watched and cheered for your team and noticed that ss was not much of a productive spot in any of the post-season. I was also hoping that the Red Sox could get back there this year when making the post-season since the Cubs couldn't get it done yet again but it wasn't in the cards. I stand by opinion on what I said before and I'm sure some will agree with me and some will agree with you. I guess We will just have to wait til next season as to who got the better of it all. If Nomar stays healthy and I realize that is a big if, not to mention if he is still a Cub, he will definately continue where he left off this seasons end.
posted by melcarek69 at 04:13 PM on October 12, 2005
fraze, I'd agree with you in abstract, but I think the best example of what people are talking about is: Larry Luchino called Nomar personally before the trade to ask if he was healthy (so he could be removed from the DL to consumate the trade). His response was, "I am now." All the same, the Murton thing is a kick in the ass. The kid looks like a potential monster. Hopefully some team can get him and Texeira and the 400 pitching prospects Dan Duqette traded to the Padres and put together a team that stomps our hearts in the playoffs a few times, just so things are back to normal.
posted by yerfatma at 04:21 PM on October 12, 2005
I'm saying I think the Red Sox could have plugged just about anyone into the hole at shortstop and done just as well in the postseason. More than the stats, it was his whole attitude. His stats went down enough to where they weren't that great of a loss. Just about anyone who follows the sox will tell you nomar was never the same after the wrist injury. Cabrera was better defensively, and he was happy. Nomar was not. He wanted to get traded. As for "poison in the clubhouse" tag, the stuff I read from his teammates at the time of the deal didn't seem to be harsh or critical. So what was the big beef? The amount of time he was on the DL? After the trade almost no one came to his defense, and schilling, millar,and varitek all made negative comments regarding nomar. Nomar was miserable, and he wanted out. And everyone else saw what the sox saw, an easily injured shortstop who was sulking. Nomar's locker was considered a black hole. No one went near it. Bill Simmons covers it very well in his book, but more than anything look at the result. This team was going no where. NO WHERE. Then came the game against the yankees where jeter went into the stands and nomar sulked in the dugout. The trade then happens, and the rest is history. I wish they had kept carbrera. Maybe not resigning him was a mistake, maybe signing renteria was a mistake. But those have nothing to do with the nomar trade, which was the right thing to do. Trading a player that hates being on the team is a no brainer. I would much rather have a part time Nomar that nearly any ss in baseball. Well, then let's hope you never run a baseball team, because you would run them into the ground. When Edgar moves on from Boston who will remember that ss that played the spot after Cabrera? Every boston fan.
posted by justgary at 04:56 PM on October 12, 2005
Uh-Huh
posted by melcarek69 at 05:01 PM on October 12, 2005
Good Luck Next season Boston fans. I'm sure you'll be as good as the last couple of years. But who can We blame for this years not getting to the series? Millar? I'm sure that someone is to blame for all of this. Is Millar the "black hole" Nomar was last year, I wonder. Can't wait to see who is blamed next year if the BoSox don't make it. In this city, I don't blame any one player for not making the playoffs, I as well as most here in Chicago blame the Cubs themselves.
posted by melcarek69 at 05:05 PM on October 12, 2005
I don't blame any one player for not making the playoffs, I as well as most here in Chicago blame the Cubs themselves. The cubs ended up in fourth place 21 games out of first. I wouldn't blame one player either. It takes a whole team to be that bad.
posted by justgary at 05:12 PM on October 12, 2005
Oh by the way, what did Orlando have to do with your World Series win again? I watched and cheered for your team and noticed that ss was not much of a productive spot in any of the post-season. It's called defense. It's the act of fielding the ball without making an error, and it was in part why Theo pulled the trigger on the trades on July 31 and got Cabrera and Mientkiewicz. "If there was a flaw on this club, it was that the defense on this team was not championship-caliber," Epstein said. "We might have gotten to the postseason. But, in my mind, we weren't going to win a World Series with our defense the way it was. We've acquired two players who have won Gold Gloves." -- Theo Epstein, July 31, 2005. But who can We blame for this years not getting to the series? Millar? I'm sure that someone is to blame for all of this. Is Millar the "black hole" Nomar was last year, I wonder. Can't wait to see who is blamed next year if the BoSox don't make it. Did you watch the ALDS or are you merely being antagonistic? I presume if you watched, you already know that answer.
posted by jerseygirl at 05:27 PM on October 12, 2005
In addition, why do you need or absolutely look for production out of the shortstop position when you're fielding an already heavy slugging team that includes Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz as your 3 and 4 guys? You don't. You easily and brainlessly take the infield defense at short over offense. Oh, and the unproductive shortstop, in 58 games with Boston, had 6 HRs, 67 hits, 31 RBIs, a .320 OBP and a .294 average.
posted by jerseygirl at 05:32 PM on October 12, 2005
But who can We blame for this years not getting to the series? Millar? I'd like to believe you're just being obtuse, but in case you are that thick, we're blaming it on losing our best starter and our All-Star closer. But you're right, any other team could have won the Series after that. Clean up the Royal Wee, please.
posted by yerfatma at 05:58 PM on October 12, 2005
Red Sox trade Garciaparra at the deadline. Here's what I said: Nomar did not want to be in boston, regardless who you blame. He's seems to be an injury waiting to happen. He hasn't played much, has never returned to his previous self before the wrist injury, and probably was gone anyway at the end of the year. I'll miss him, but not his pouting. The trade is good for both him and the team. And besides, has anyone seen the red sox defense this year? I don't know if the trade will send boston to the playoffs, but I don't think this was a bad trade. Basically what I've said here. Weedy in my opinion was on the mark: I think this is good for Boston - yes they loose a bit at the plate, but Doug M and Cabrera are really good defensive players for a team that sorely needed it. They're also not awful hitters, but good contact guys who don't strike out a lot. Cabrera actually has some power that can be exploited at Fenway. Instead of just letting him walk they manage to get a couple quality players. And I thought you were reading my mind when you wrote this fraz: Boston gets something it was sorely lacking -- defense. The Red Sox offense will be just fine without Nomar, and neither Cabrera or Minky are exactly stiffs at the plate. In any other situation, sure, Boston got boned, but at the deadline for a guy who obviously wasn't going to sign with you anyway? I think Theo did the best he could
posted by justgary at 07:07 PM on October 12, 2005
Immediate comparisons to Edgar Renteria's swimming abilities ensue. As soon as the All-Star shortstop and two-time American League batting champ ran out the door to help the woman, her friend also fell in Couldn't you have waited and asked for an autograph?