11/21/24
September 17, 2005
This seems to be a problem with ring side care in Las Vegas maybe?: Leavander Johnson underwent brain surgery Saturday night after collapsing in his dressing room following his IBF lightweight title loss against challenger Jesus Chavez. 38 seconds into the round following the ring side doctor saying he was "OK" to continue.
The doctor: "I asked him if he had a headache and was dizzy. He said no." Is that really all doctors do at ringside? I'd think someone suffering from brain bleeding during the course of being beaten wouldn't be in the best condition to self-assess his health.
posted by rcade at 06:53 AM on September 18, 2005
Yeah, you would think they'd at least do a little more than just say, hey how ya feeling. Every boxer is going to say I'm fine. None of them are going to say, I'm dying out there Doc you gotta do something . Especially with as many fights as they have in Las Vegas. I don't know the exact number per year, but I'll bet it's up there. With all of those fight happening there, wouldn't you expect some higher standard of ringside care?
posted by jojomfd1 at 08:20 AM on September 18, 2005
I guess that should read "...ring side 'doctor'..."
posted by kokaku at 08:44 AM on September 18, 2005
Thats a chance you take when you decide to box. The other guy is out to hurt you, and usaully does. Boxing is a risky buisness, adn most guys are out of the ring in their late 20s, or early 30s.
posted by redsoxrgay at 10:03 AM on September 18, 2005
Thats a chance that is suposed to be minimized by all of the medical staff at ring side. A staff that as of lately doesn't appear to be doing so hot.
posted by jojomfd1 at 12:34 PM on September 18, 2005
Well redsox#### (and I will not comment on your obvious sexual insenitivities because you wouldn't get it anyay) Please check the ages of Ali, Louis, Foreman, Paz, and the one you might relate to most, Tyson.....it's the young ones that get knocked out that quit....because they can't get a fight....by the way how about you telling Captain V to his face what a gay man he is.....
posted by gfinsf at 12:39 PM on September 18, 2005
Boxing is risky business. I'd have to say that Johnson came out at the start of the round with his feet under him. However he did take some serious blows right before it was stopped. Maybe his corner should have sensed something was wrong. The most paramount concern for the corner should be their man and they know him best so, I can't put everything on the reff or doc. What's the doc gonna do- hold up the fight and to a MRI between every round?
posted by T$PORT4lawschool at 12:39 PM on September 18, 2005
I'm noy saying that at all, but there are other things that they can look for, I'm sure. In the article it points out several other incidents of this happening in the same city, i.e. same governing body. My first post in this thread is one of those incident that lead to a boxer who died the next day. I'd say that something needs to change. Maybe in the way they do examine the fighters between rounds. All I know is it doesn't look as if the current system works all that well.
posted by jojomfd1 at 01:08 PM on September 18, 2005
And the Ref can ask a fighter if he is dizzy and has a headache. If all the doc can do is rely on further testing that can not be done at ring side then why are they even there?
posted by jojomfd1 at 01:13 PM on September 18, 2005
Something needs to be done about how these dotors assess the fighters. Yes, there is great personal risk when you box...but if you have doctors at ringside, their first priority should be to make sure that the fighter is TRULY capable of continuing before sending him or her out there to potentially get killed.
posted by supersly26 at 01:38 PM on September 18, 2005
With no offense to the posted conversations, lets look objectively not subjectively. It seems as though we're only looking at the doctor there are other people examine here for example the corner, they know there fighter the best-the doc may have never had contact with the fighter before. The corner needs to get some spotlight. What about the fighter, well somebody said no fighter is going to say they can't go on, I can think of a few fighters recently that just didn't come out of their corner. So lets take responsibilty for our actions. We cannot readily sue the bartender because we drank to much and got into a wreck-who drove the car? Who's really at fault here? I am not sure but lets take a holistic approach. Also Las Vegas has many matches perhaps more than any other state at the pro level so of couse there will be more accidents simply by probability. Good discussion people this issue is serious and can make the sport look bad.
posted by T$PORT4lawschool at 04:33 PM on September 18, 2005
Where is there not a problem with boxing?
posted by dbt302 at 05:25 PM on September 18, 2005
What if the corner is going on this ring side doctors "expert opinion"? And as stated above, a person with a possible head injury is not going to be able to answer these questions appropriatly, Johnson did not even have full use of his legs on the way to the dressing room according to this article.
posted by jojomfd1 at 11:00 PM on September 18, 2005
I AM A MEDIC AND VOLUNTEER MY TIME AT SOME BOXING MATCHES AND ASSIST THE DOC IN THE PRE FIGHT CHECK OF THE BOXERS BEFORE THE EVENT WHICH IS ONE TO TWO HOURS BEFORE THE MATCH BEGINS AND THE DOC DOES A BRIEF PHYSICAL AND I CHECK THE VITAL SIGNS, IF THE BLOOD PRESSURE OR HEART RATE IS TO HIGH OR TO LOW THE DOC DOES NOT LET THE BOXER FIGHT BECAUSE THE VITAL SIGNS HAVE TO BE WITH IN NORMAL LIMITS. I ALSO CHECK EACH BOXER VITAL SIGNS AGAIN AFTER THEY COME OUT OF THE RING REGARDLESS IF IT WAS A KNOCK OUT OR BRUTAL BEATING AND THE DOC HAS THE ULTIMATE POWER TO STOP THE MATCH.
posted by TTUF1 at 12:12 AM on September 19, 2005
"The fight was stopped 38 seconds into the 11th round by referee Tony Weeks but not before Johnson took what appeared to be about two dozen unanswered punches to the head while he was up against the ropes." It is possible that the Doc checked Johnson and then Johnson went out and got pummeled, with the damage getting done at that time. As in: the doc checks him after the tenth, he's okay (no signs of neurological damage at that point), but then the final beating does his brain in. The article certainly makes it sound like the Ref let him (his unguarded head) get a pretty severe beating prior to stopping it. Checking their vitals and checking them out the day of the fight is okay, but as you can see from the Sanchez and Garcia deaths in Jojomfd1's link above, it seems like some of these guys' medical history is only given a cursory look.
posted by chris2sy at 12:52 AM on September 19, 2005
It is possible that it was only the final 38 seconds that did it, but if you read further into the article this man was out punched 409-148. Now I am sure you can blame some of this on the corner and the ref, but they are not medically certified. They are looking to the ringside doctor for expert medical advise on weither he can fight or not. TTUF1 what venue do you volunteer at?
posted by jojomfd1 at 01:08 AM on September 19, 2005
Las Vegas has the strictest commission and the most safety precautions of any boxing jurisdiction. Maybe that isn't saying much however. Nobody has discussed that the person responsible for throwing in the towel was his trainer who also happens to be his father. I assume his father has been with him from day 1 and would be the best judge of his son's condition. I do not know his fathers qualifications but maybe they need better qualified trainers as well. It's impossible to prove if 1 punch, 1 fight or the 100,000+ career punches did the damage. I hope he recovers to live a normal life.
posted by sandman at 08:24 AM on September 19, 2005
I would assume the opposite, sandman; that is to say, I would assume the father would be the worst judge of the son's condition. But that's why assumptions are worthless.
posted by Hugh Janus at 10:27 AM on September 19, 2005
In some respects, there is no amount of prevention possible to avoid these kinds of finishes in boxing. Everyone could do their job perfectly and this could still be the outcome. If anything, maybe the ref didn't do his job given those punch stats. Perhaps the fight should have been over earlier, but really - these are the extreme risks that one takes when they decide on their career.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 10:50 AM on September 19, 2005
Nobody has discussed that the person responsible for throwing in the towel was his trainer who also happens to be his father. I assume his father has been with him from day 1 and would be the best judge of his son's condition. I do not know his fathers qualifications but maybe they need better qualified trainers as well. It doesn't matter who exactly this person is. They were referred to in earlier posts in this thread as the corner.
posted by jojomfd1 at 10:54 AM on September 19, 2005
Hindsight is always 20/20(or 50/50 per a previous story) and I bet the fighter looked no different to the doctor than the thousands of other boxers he's seen get pummeled over the years. And as for the ref we've all seen fighters get angry when the fight is stopped and they still think they were in it(ok ok those punch stats don't show that he was in it). All I'm saying is it's easy to see something went wrong now but I'm sure the people involved had a different perspective at the time.
posted by tron7 at 12:05 PM on September 19, 2005
tron7, Did you even read the 2 articles, First off the ring side doctor was a female. Secondly your last sentence addresses only this fight. The problem is not just this fight, as was stated in both of these atricles this has happened several times, in the same place, and has even resulted in one fighters death. This is past the hindsight is 20/20 excuse, there should be something done about improving the quality of ringside care.
posted by jojomfd1 at 12:50 PM on September 19, 2005
Here is another link on the July 1st match that left Martin Sanchez dead also.