June 21, 2002

Hmm... both are very tough to call. Spain hasn't been convincing but if they get their shit together they should be able to beat Korea. However, Korea are an awfully intimidating side to face, if only because the level of support they receive from their fans. The way I see it both teams can do themselves in. Korea can become to pleased with themselves for having got this far to want the win over Spain as badly as they wanted to win Italy (I suspect the chance to outperform Japan and equal North Korea's famous '66 victory helped push them on). Spain, on the other hand, can do what they always seem to do in a major tournament and self-destruct in spectacular fashion. If Raul doesn't play, which seems likelier by the minute, they might lack confidence and do just that. But then again, Mendieta might be boosted enough by his winning penalty to actually perform at his usual level. If he has a brilliant game I fear that Korea must be very lucky to win. And after the Ireland match Spain might actually believe they have luck on their side. But then again, they might be petrified going up against a team that is just as (if not more so) hardworking and spirited than the Irish. You never know. Then there are expectations. Spain must win. If they don't they'll get their (admittedly usual) scorching from the Spanish press. That could either motivate them or petrify them. Korea are already the heroes of a whole nation. That might either blunt their edge or drive them on. Hard to say. Nobody expected them to get this far and nobody really expects them to get further. (But then again the same thing applied to France in '98. Even their own press didn't think they had a chance. Sample French headlines: "The Team Won't Survive First Round" "Plucky Paraguay Will Beat Striker-less France" "Italy's Wall Will Stop French Team" "Upstart Croatia On Their Way to the Finals! - To Play Les Bleues" "Our Boys Will Put Up a Good Fight Against Brazil - But Will Lose Anyway to Ronaldo's Golden Squad" "Ronaldo - Greatest Player Since Pelé" "We Won!!! - Like We Always Said We'd Do - Greatest French Team Ever Wallops Brazil 3-0!" "Zizou, We Love You! You're The Greatest Player Ever!" At the time I felt like the only person in the world who was convinced France would win the World Cup. Or recognizing the beauty in their play. But enough with this, back to '02) Well... that was a lot of words spent on saying: Well, it could go either way, depending on who scores more goals. Turkey v Senegal will probably be the game England v Brazil was hyped up to be. Attack-minded team playing beautiful football versus defensive WALL, coupled with lethal strikers. I think Senegal have the edge because, if the quotes that have been coming from the teams' camps are indicitave of their mindsets, Turkey are already focusing on the semi-finals while Senegal just want to reach them. But really, again, this game will be won by the team scoring more goals ;) But I certainly hope that Korea and Senegal go through... and then meet up in the final... wouldn't that be a sight for sore eyes! Instead of say... Brazil v Germany *shudder* Once upon a time that would have been something to look forward to. How times change. And also, I'd hate to have either team win because Brazil really doesn't need another World Cup win. What they need to do is to clean up their hopelessly corrupt football federation. Germany doesn't need it either, because if they'd do that they'd defend their title in '06 in Germany... Why do I feel confident in predicting that? Because they're bastards who do that sort of thing. That would be okay if they played at the same level as in say '90 or '96, but now they don't deserve it. And neither does Brazil. Oh, since I've mentioned poor performances I'd like to ask you people: Does it seem to you that though this World Cup is certainly the most exciting World Cup... well, ever probably... the level of play doesn't quite reach the standards of '98. Brazil were certainly better then, but were still lucky to make the final, and no team has been playing as beautifully as France were. And on a sidenote, Aimé Jacquet, the coach of the French '98 team, heaped praise on Korea in a recent article for Le Monde, even semi-endorsed them to win by saying that they "remind me strongly of a certain team in '98 which I had a passing acquaintance with" (translation mine, from memory, so it might be wildly inaccurate, but the sentiment was something like that). So hmm... that was certainly a rambling post. I think I'll leave it at that. Oh, and I'm sorry for possibly hijacking the thread. So feel free to pelt me with whatever tomatoes you have left after pelting the Italian team.

posted by Kattullus at 01:29 PM on June 21, 2002

You may not have been upset. I was chuffing distraught.

posted by Fat Buddha at 02:51 PM on June 21, 2002

Fat Buddha: It wouldn't really be the old order asserting itself if Spain got to the finals. It would be just as surprising as, say, the US beating Portugal, to pick one upset at random. Spain have usually self-destructed before now. I don't remember when Spain last got to the quarter-finals, but I think it was sometime not long after WWII. They haven't really performed up to expectation since they won the inaugural European Championships back in 1956 (or wait... did they win the second one in 1960? Can't remember...). A number of theories have been put forward to explain this which I won't bother getting into right now. People have always expected them to win, but have known that really they'd crash out in a humiliating fashion. They still look likely to do so, but then again, (to shift into BreathLessFootBallCommenTatorTalk) in a World Cup of Surprises... the Ultimate Surprise Might Be... Spain... Lifting the Golden... Trophy... !... But yeah, the Sputnik teams have been those who were fit and uninjured. But some do play excellent, beautiful football. Both Korea and Senegal for instance. And seeing the US on attack was also really amazing. They were amazingly well coordinated. They were almost like set pieces. They kind of reminded me of the Germany '90 team, the last truly excellent German team. If DaMarcus Beasley develops into a Klinsmann as he is threatening to do, and Mathis into a Voeller, and O'Brien into... (hmm... I think I've gotten caught up in the analogy, but I'm ready with a few more paralells)... the US could do a repeat performance in '06. Or perhaps do one (or two!) better. But the US shouldn't get their hopes up. A lot of really talented European sides with lots of axes to grind will show up in Germany in '06, and they won't make the same mistakes as before. (I have to say that I feel really sorry for any team that will be forced to share a group at the European Championships with France in 2004. It's not a team I'd like to compete against when they are trying very hard to prove themselves (as every team playing against them in Euro2000 got to know)). thekorruptor: Well... the French have been very good (being forced to analyze the failure of Les Bleues might have better prepared them for the rest of the tournament) and also the Americans. Marcotti at www.cnnsi.com has been excellent (except today, for some reason). The English have often been awful, but with some bright spots (Guardian's minute-by-minute match reports for instance). P.S. Hmm... can you tell that I work at a job where I have a lot of time to surf the web? ;)

posted by Kattullus at 04:35 PM on June 21, 2002

Kattullus, I knew my post lacked logic when I posted but hoped no-one would notice. I appreciate in national terms that Spain are underachievers.I have posted here and elsewhere ad nauseum my belief that this is the year of the underachiever, and Spain are the ultimate underachievers. 10 quid went on at 9-1 before the tournament started, so I am sticking with them. I have posted all this before, all over the place, and didn't want to repeat myself. So, with twisted logic I will continue to call Spain the old guard, if only for what their club sides have achieved. Assuming my assumptions are correct, which is highly unlikely, my assertion that the old guard are reasserting themselves is still true. It started today with Germany and Brazil going through. The only unfancied sides still in it are Korea , Senegal and Turkey, none of whom will make the final. The final will be contested by two of Germany, Brazil and Spain. I almost hope it's Germany and Brazil just to back my point up. But it will be Spain - Brazil, with Spain winning, thus ending years of underachievment and taking their rightful place among the old order.

posted by Fat Buddha at 05:08 PM on June 21, 2002

Well... to be honest, as much I've always kindaliked Spain, and as I said before, I wouldn't terribly mind them winning, it would be even more wonderful for football if Senegal and Korea would meet up in the finals, because it would guarantee a non-Europe/S-America winner, which would be a great start to the century. By the way, I think that it was fitting and appropriate and other synonyms that France won the last world cup of the 20th century since it was their bloody idea in the first place. I think it would be an equally fitting start to the 21st if an Asian or African side would win it. However, Spain are long overdue for a win... or a spot in the semis anyway. But tomorrow I'll still cheer for Korea... Korea Team Fighting! And it's true, Turkey are supremely unlovable, out-Italying the Italians as they do. And Africa are long overdue for a place in the finals. And also, on the political front, Senegal are a plucky young democracy trying to make its way in a treacherous world with terrible odds stacked against, while Turkey (though admittedly a democracy) spend its time massacring everyone they don't like, i.e. people who aren't Turks who happen to have lived within the borders of Turkey since about, say, the Dawn of Time, but won't simply roll over and play dead, i.e. the Kurds. Plus, Senegal play such a eye-pleasing game. Go Lions of Teranga! Gobble up that Turkey! ...to steal a joke from some guy in Senegal I heard on BBC... I can exploit the third world with the best of them (i.e. Nike)

posted by Kattullus at 08:03 PM on June 21, 2002

In the U.S., it's 5:17am. Maybe I yelled too loud. Korea Team Fighting!

posted by Samsonov14 at 04:13 AM on June 22, 2002

Woooooooooooooooooooooo!!! Do you realise that Korea have quite by themselves cleared the slate of southern European teams? To be fair Spain were unlucky having the linesman calling it over the line but still, Korea deserved it. They seemed to lose the plot in the second part of the first half but they came back fighting and won the day. Again, the other team, Spain this time, have really only themselves to blame. It's true that they were unlucky but they also wasted chances and didn't push hard enough when they had the upper hand, letting the Koreans back into the game. It's true that the Koreans were lucky but if you play well enough luck won't matter either way but in a game this close luck will inevitably decide the outcome. Still... I do feel sorry for Spain. They really do seem cursed. I watched the game at this sportsbar and a lot of Spaniards were watching and they never, ever believed that their side would go through.

posted by Kattullus at 06:03 AM on June 22, 2002