12/18/24
December 15, 2004
Boston wraps up Renteria just in time for Christmas.: Deal reportedly is 4 years/$40m.
posted by jerseygirl to baseball at 12:20 PM - 28 comments
I was sort of surprised the Red Sox went as high as 10m/yr. But then again, Renteria is young and a multiple Gold Glover... While he doesn't have the power of Garciaparra, he's a bit more patient at the plate than Cabrera while providing similar, if not better, defense than Cabrera. They had offered Nomar 4yrs/60m last spring, so this is kind of a deal I guess.
posted by jerseygirl at 01:07 PM on December 15, 2004
Yeah, I was also surprised to see the Sox go to 10Mfor Edgar, but like jersey said, they seem to have budgeted more at SS. Let's hope that $5M/yr + hot minor league SS can go to some more pitching :) (As an aside, Edgar hit the game winner in my True Team's 1997 WS win, and rolled over nicely for my Adopted Team's 2004 WS win, so hopefully he'll continue to bring good WS luck to me ;)
posted by tieguy at 01:40 PM on December 15, 2004
I don't get this one really. Cabrera is pretty much the same player as Renteria (a few points here and there) for a lot less cheddar, I would imagine. Some of that statistical difference could probably be attributed to being in Montreal. It's their money though.
posted by pivo at 02:05 PM on December 15, 2004
I don't understand Renteria, at least I don't understand paying him 4yrs/40 million? Does that mean that Theo Epstein is on a higher plane of enlightenment than I... (or, it could just mean I'm used to Minnesota Twins prices where the highest paid player MIGHT get that much a year...)
posted by chris2sy at 02:14 PM on December 15, 2004
Cabrera is pretty much the same player as Renteria (a few points here and there) I don't see that. They're both NL shortstops from Colombia with good defensive reputations, but Renteria is a better hitter than Cabrera. Cabrera did a nice job for the Sox last year, but he's a free swinger and doesn't fit with the front office's offensive philosophy. The little I've heard from his camp suggest he's looking for $6-8 million. Renteria's 30 points of career OPS make him a better deal, though $10 mil/ year seems a touch high. I had heard the Sox were offering $9 and he wanted $9.5. Not sure where $10 came from. There's some Cardinal fan persepctive here. Plus they're paying a fan $100 because they promised Edgar was coming back.
posted by yerfatma at 03:09 PM on December 15, 2004
I am a Cardinals fan and I am THRILLED by this move! I have been saying for the whole year the Cardinals have absolutely no need for Renteria, at least not at the $8-10M he was going to get. Here's why: 1) Renteria has had spotty health for a couple of years now. Does anyone need to give a shortstop with a bad back $40M over four years? Well, we don't, at least. 2) St. Louis has such a potent line-up, why do we need a (supposed) slugging SS? Look at how much LaRussa moved Renteria around this season. First, second, seventh ... he was all over the place. Replace him with a lighter-hitting SS that has a strong glove (I want Cabrera) that can lead off and steal bases, or just drop him to eighth. 3) That $8M is now going to land us a frontline starter, or something a heck of a lot closer than what we had last season. I don't really understand this move by the Red Sox, though. Again -- why the hell do you need a slugging (and possibly declining) SS when everyone else in your lineup can already mash? Oh well ... the Sox gots the grease to buy whatever they want anyhow. See you all in the World Series again!
posted by wfrazerjr at 03:10 PM on December 15, 2004
I certainly didn't see it coming, but overall I think he's a solid addition. Are there really any stellar agent pitchers left? Why not use the money here and find a way to trade for the pitching you truly desire. The one thing the Sox have shown is that there's clearly a contigency plan for every scenario. Lose Pedro move on to Plan B or C or D. Get ready for the incessent Hudson rumors.
posted by YukonGold at 03:23 PM on December 15, 2004
why the hell do you need a slugging (and possibly declining) SS They don't need a slugging SS. My guess is they're trying to solidify that position so they can trade Hanley Ramirez for pitching. If they resign Varitek, they could move Kelly Shoppach instead or in addition to Ramirez.
posted by yerfatma at 03:54 PM on December 15, 2004
i don't know if they trade Hanley Ramirez absolutely. They could transition him to 3rd or 2nd. Of course, they do have Youks... They also have Pedroia who is, apparently, a better 2B. ... so who knows.
posted by jerseygirl at 05:11 PM on December 15, 2004
Shortstops get converted to 3B. The 'EEI callers are killing me with the "move to second" thing. If second basemen have good arms, they're shortstops. If they have good arms but limited range, they play third. And there's Justin at second too. Plus Bellhorn could be there for a couple years. (I'm not picking on you: it's just been driving me nuts). Good news: Woody Paige declared the Sox dead based on their rotation in December.
posted by yerfatma at 05:44 PM on December 15, 2004
Well if I was a Sox fan, I would be worried about the Rotation. David Wells??? Can somebody tell why that was a smart move??????? Edgar should have fun in Fenway consider this: 1) Renteria has had spotty health for a couple of years now. Does anyone need to give a shortstop with a bad back $40M over four years? Well, we don't, at least. I thought that the Red Sox just got rid of that type of short stop!! oh well, I wish the Red Sox good health!!
posted by daddisamm at 05:54 PM on December 15, 2004
I didn't know Yerfatma, so I appreciate you telling me and... not ripping me apart for it. Heh. Didn't listen to EEI. In fact haven't listened to much EEI for months -- no radio reception in my work building.
posted by jerseygirl at 06:30 PM on December 15, 2004
Overzealous with the reply button. I didn't know that about infielders -- the good arms, range determining factors. That's some good info to take along with me. So... thanks again. daddisamm -- they'll address pitching somehow, either via trade or... I don't know. I just have complete faith in Theo. Wells has a purpose, it was addressed more in the Pedro thread. Check it out :)
posted by jerseygirl at 06:34 PM on December 15, 2004
Can somebody tell why that was a smart move? Signing a good pitcher who has been pitching well in his Golden Years for a few million a year— that Theo needs to explain for you? Wells has been a better than league average every year since 1997 and all but three of his thirteen full seasons. Additionally, he has the kind of K/BB ratio Theo's Boys like to see. I think that's one of their top stats for pitchers, along with K/9. I listen to 'EEI for 10-15 minutes in the car at lunch. Helps me want to go back to work. Don't take the positional stuff as gospel; it's just what I've read.
posted by yerfatma at 07:13 PM on December 15, 2004
I still say they are very similar players. I agree Renteria is a better hitter than Cabrera (though Cabrera probably has slightly better power). My point was the gain on Renteria over Cabrera just doesn't seem worth $2-5M/yr (whatever Cabrera may sign for) to me. Throw some gravy on a big name pitcher contract or grab a couple good utility guys with that cash. Comparison time: 162 game career averages (BA/OBP/SLG - BB/K - RBI/HR) Cabrera: .268/.316/.409 - 41/54 - 12/69 Renteria: .289/.346/.400 - 54/84 - 10/71 I think many of the career differences in their stats can be attributed to Cabrera being in Montreal and Renteria's way outside the curve '02 and '03 seasons.
posted by pivo at 07:31 PM on December 15, 2004
More later, but I don't think there's a big difference between Olympic Stadium and Busch. Pro Player is an even tougher hitter's park.
posted by yerfatma at 08:34 PM on December 15, 2004
I was thinking lineups instead of park differences, but fair enough on that point. 69 RBI a year for Montreal has to be tougher than 71 for St. Louis, no matter where they play :)
posted by pivo at 12:31 AM on December 16, 2004
My girlfriend and I watched Renteria in the playoffs a few times this year, and everytime she heard his name, all she said was: "Renteria, Renteria, cha cha cha." Yeah, she's a keeper.
posted by Samsonov14 at 05:33 PM on December 16, 2004
Eh, first time Corey Dillon's name is mentioned during every game this year, my future wife name-checks Dylon from the last "Making the Band" on MTV.
posted by yerfatma at 07:10 PM on December 16, 2004
I can't hear his name without singing quietly to myself (all apologies to Sublime): "I'm not Edgar Renteria, I can't hit the high fastball..."
posted by wfrazerjr at 10:43 PM on December 16, 2004
That song is reserved in my mind for a drunken college tribute to UMaine's greatest hockey player (no, not Garth Snow): "I can't dance like Paul Kariya . . . "
posted by yerfatma at 06:40 AM on December 17, 2004
Paul Kariya ... man, what the hell happened to that guy?!? And yerfatma, if you'd like a few cards of his, drop me an email at wfrazerjr AT gmail DOT com, and I'll send you a few, including a jersey card.
posted by wfrazerjr at 10:14 AM on December 17, 2004
Oh, and in related news: Redbird Nation, which I thought was one of the best baseball blogs on the web, has closed its doors.
posted by wfrazerjr at 10:16 AM on December 17, 2004
That song is reserved in my mind for a drunken college tribute to UMaine's greatest hockey player (no, not Garth Snow): "I can't dance like Paul Kariya . . . " Ho-lee SHIT! I'd forgotten all about that!
posted by Mayor Curley at 11:31 AM on December 17, 2004
Which is to say Hizzoner was the inebriated author. Here we sit, seven years later. We really oughta be playing Tekken and be half in the bag right now. Fer chrissakes, it's Friday afternoon.
posted by yerfatma at 12:05 PM on December 17, 2004
Ok, I'd rather have had Cabrera for $8 million less a year. On the plus side, maybe we could get David Eckstein back.
posted by yerfatma at 07:26 AM on December 21, 2004
My math. Very poor. Too early. $2 million less per year. I guess that's negligible.
posted by yerfatma at 07:30 AM on December 21, 2004
The Cards weren't willing to go higher than 4/32. The question is, which Renteria is Boston getting? The 130 OPS+ Edgar from 2003 or the 100 OPS+ Edgar from the rest of his career? He's only 28 and has stayed remarkably healthy, so that's a plus. I really wish he could have stayed with the Cards, but that $8M can now go towards a front end SP. Still need a 2B and a SS though. Time for Jocketty to earn his pay.