11/05/24
December 10, 2004
S.S. Lazio: will not have any fans for it's next European home game. Why? Because of "racist abuse and crowd disturbances" during the UEFA Cup match against Partizan Belgrade. Ouch! In the past officials have imposed a one-goal penalty against Rome's worse half for similar infractions (I'm not sure if the penalty was actully ever assessed). The punishment does not take effect until next year (pending qualification), but does this punishment go too far? Or was it fair? Anyone have a better idea for subduing crazy fans? The BBC story is here.
It was a punishment after Roma’s home game against Dynamo Kiev had to be abandoned when the referee was struck by a missile. Well at least Roma's punishment was not for "racist abuse." Disclaimer: I'm a big Roma fan.
posted by Bag Man at 08:44 PM on December 10, 2004
I saw the Roma-Real Madrid match, and with the quiet it was truly strange. ESPN had a mike near the Roma bench and so the main thing we heard besides Tommy Smyth's yapping was del Neri screaming "Marco Marco Marco" all the time. I think empty stands are a good penalty and should be used in American sports, specifically should have happened to the Pistons the other week.
posted by billsaysthis at 08:49 PM on December 10, 2004
I think sometimes Americans mistakenly believe that European nations are tolerant, pluralistic societies. However, that does not seem to be the case. What do you think would happen if the fans threw bananas at the players during a major league baseball game? Would that be tolerated?
posted by molafson at 09:22 PM on December 10, 2004
At the 2000 derby in Rome I was involved in a bit of brawl. It was started by a some Lazio fans who would make ape-like noises whenever a black player touched the ball. A few Roma fans took loud exception to it. The Lazio fans told them to chill. The Roma fans calmed down. After the game, which Roma lost, the Roma fans attacked the Lazio fans, my friends (who happened to friends with the Lazio fan) and me (twice). Shooting or throwing stuff on the field is unacceptable. Yelling racist slogans is unacceptable. Perhaps even honoring racist icons at matches, which some Lazio fans did during 2000, is unacceptable. Banning all fans seems a bit extreme; however, if the offending fans can't be singled out it does not seem totally all that crazy. Eagles, NY Giants and Pistons fans are just lucky the NFL or the NBA has not decided to follow similar tactics. I think sometimes Americans mistakenly believe that European nations are tolerant, pluralistic societies. However, that does not seem to be the case. What do you think would happen if the fans threw bananas at the players during a major league baseball game? Would that be tolerated? I don't think that such fans would leave the stadium alive, and it's not because there is a lot of angery, tolerant people in the stands.
posted by Bag Man at 01:38 AM on December 11, 2004
Lazio fans have a history of this bullshit, that's well know.
posted by Bag Man at 01:40 AM on December 11, 2004
I think making clubs play behind closed doors is an acceptable punishment for repeated offences. What else can you do? Fining the clubs won't make any difference, because the offending fans won't care. This way you're punishing the fans (who don't get to see the match) and the club (who don't get ticket money). I know that most of the fans who go to football matches are disgusted by racist chanting and things being thrown on the pitch, so maybe it's a little unfair on them, but sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind. The only other thing I can think of is throwing the teams out of European competitions altogether, because the abuse does seem to be more prevalent in European and International games. They did it to English clubs in the 80's, after all. That led to the end of widespread hooliganism, so it may work for racism.
posted by afx237vi at 08:18 AM on December 11, 2004
It seems like a decent penalty to me. You get the double-whammy of losing gate receipts as well as the advantage of home support. Far better than the pathetic fine given to Real who should be playing their next game behind closed doors too. But UEFA aren't going to do that unless the Real fans turn up wearing white sheets and start lynching people on the terraces.
posted by squealy at 10:00 AM on December 11, 2004
This isn't new to UEFA and FIFA, but it's being used more frequently -- in part, because of a larger European schedule; in part because there's a concerted effort to clean up the remaining blackspots. As Wednesday's match in Rome proves, it's a pretty loud wake-up call to the fans and the club. And if it were shown on live TV, it'd be a good deterrent to other potential offenders. The Pistons should have suffered the same punishment: that it doesn't seem to have even been considered says a lot about American sporting culture. (One thing I've wondered: do season-ticket holders get a refund? It's probably a moot point, since most season tickets don't cover cup competitions, but still...)
posted by etagloh at 02:06 PM on December 11, 2004
The Pistons should have suffered the same punishment: that it doesn't seem to have even been considered says a lot about American sporting culture. It says nothing about American sporting culture. The two situations are totally different and justify different punishments. Considering that the fans who incited and participated in the fight at Auburn Hills were readily ascertainable there was no need to ban all fans. Punishing all Pistons fans for the actions of 2 or 3 bad apples seems to be grossly unfair. When a lot of fans or a majority of fans participate in such actions or when it hard to find what fans did what a total bad makes sense. Thus, in the case of Lazio fans a total ban makes sense, and the case of the Pistons it does not. Your insult and broad generalization of Americans and American sports fans was unnecessary and quite ignorant. American venues have never witnessed the hooliganism of British soccer. I’m glad that hooliganism is under control, but I could at this point say something like the "existence of hooliganism at all says a lot about British or European sporting culture." But I won’t say it. Wait, didn’t I just…never mind, but 15,000 American fans would never and have never shown up to a sports evet with a case of bear each and no tickets simply to invade a small town. Soccer fans don’t have the high ground here. I think that the punishment should fit the crime, and perhaps with the exception of the Giants and Eagles snowball incidents no event has every justified a total ban of fan in the American sporting culture. Please...hooliganism has never existed in the American sporting culture.
posted by Bag Man at 01:48 AM on December 12, 2004
I am so taking a case of bear to the Viler game this afternoon.
posted by squealy at 04:18 AM on December 12, 2004
Bag Man: Yeah. I guess those riots and setting-things-on-fire episodes in the states have nothing to do with American sport. And 2 or 3 bad apples? Looked like a lot more that that throwing shit from the stands to me.
posted by rodgerd at 03:19 PM on December 12, 2004
"2 or 3 bad apples"? You must've been watching a different game.
posted by blarp at 03:42 PM on December 12, 2004
Those were some bad ass apples...
posted by StarFucker at 05:19 PM on December 12, 2004
In the past (just this week) Real Madrid played AS Roma in front of an empty stadium due to punishment against Roma. That sounds pretty weird. Though I have not searched out any pics of what that is like I welcome somebody posting links to them here.