04/23/24
November 10, 2004
Did the Yankees have a chance to acquire Schilling? My impression was that the Diamondbacks would never have done that deal because of animus between the owners. As for the rest of the plan, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell people the two-step plan of how the Yankees will build in the off-season: 1. Sign a top free agent at a price almost no one else can afford. 2. Repeat step 1.
posted by rcade at 07:47 AM on November 10, 2004
I still would rather they left things alone and just added one pitcher. The Brown for Jones deal would be OK too, I think. Beltran is overrated and will cost too much, Johnson is another injury risk. I'll take Pavano or Clement and lose Brown. With Neil Allen on the coaching staff we can expect Vazquez to actually have some help, so a rotation of Vaz/Moose/Leiber/Duque/Pavano-Clement and maybe Wells as insurance would be fine. However, they're stuck with Brown, so I say forget Wells and make Brown the 6 man. Make him earn his spot. I hope to god they don't get Milton. He just sucks. They don't need a lefty starter... people seem to forget that the Sox just won the series without one. A lefty specialist like Kline (who I want despite the fact that he's a dickhead who flips off his manager) is all they need. Going out and getting expensive parts hasn't worked in 4 years. Going out and getting the right parts used to work. There is no reason this team can't improve without a similar sized payroll. In fact, Lieber will get less money (though to ensure that he stays I'd put in incentives that could still get him that 8 or even more so he doesn't feel slighted by the declined option). This year they'll have to pay Jeter more and pay a lot more of ARod's salary though. You do have to admit that Schoenfeld did turn out to be fairly accurate last year. I hated his column then, I clearly remember it, because it gave up Sori and NJ... turns out they did, and they did get that marquee SS. And yes, you're right, RCade, the Yankees had no shot. The DBacks wanted both of those young guys and some other stuff for Schilling, then turned around and gave him to the Sox for spare parts. They really stuck it to the Yankees intentionally because of the Wells thing. And they lost their jobs because of it, as well they should have. They blamed Steinbrenner when they should have blamed Wells. Just as the Yankees blamed Wells after last year when he bolted in the same way to go to SD.
posted by Bernreuther at 08:58 AM on November 10, 2004
YukonGold: trade for arguably the best left-handed pitcher of our generation Wait, who else is in this argument? This seems about as open and shut as you can get, to me. Bernreuther: Johnson is another injury risk. Um... maybe... or maybe not! He was injured last year and it showed, but this year he seems okay, and was arguably the best pick for Cy Young (and many agree in the NL Cy Young thread from yesterday that Johnson should have won outright, or would have won in a walk if he had run support). That's hardly a sign of a pitcher in decline; the Mariners made the same mistake, decided his back problems were too much... and traded him to Arizona by way of Houston, where he rattled of 4 Cy Youngs in a row. For that matter, The Red Sox did the same with Clemens, who left them after Duquette decided he was in the "twilight" of his career. One long twilight and 4 Cy Youngs later... I'm just saying, after watching Schilling have his ankled staple-gunned together to pitch two excellent games in clutch situations, watching Johnson shrug off those supposedly career ending back injuries to terrorize hitters through the years, watching Clemens win 18 games and yet another Cy Young at age 42... well, it just reminds you that there is a difference between true aces, true #1 starters, and the fake variety like Kevin Brown et al. You simply don't bet against guys like this until they've proven they can't win (and after the season Johnson just had he's clearly worth a 2-3 year contract) and usually they'll be the first to let you know: they have too much pride to keep pitching when they know their stuff is gone.
posted by hincandenza at 11:02 AM on November 10, 2004
Why does anybody want Randy Johnson??? He can still pitch but he is an injury risks He is a stint on the DL away from being done! It seems any player in the free agent lime-light has baggage Pedro is also damged goods in my mind. Beltran is also guite over-rated- He has also been bitten by the injury bug over the last few seasonS I think the Yanks would be better off by keeping some of the pitchers they already have. Kevin Brown should have taught the yankees to stay away from old pitchers....Giambi is another wasted contract! It will be an interesting Winter
posted by daddisamm at 11:14 AM on November 10, 2004
Why does anybody want Randy Johnson??? Maybe because if you give him run support and a decent #2 behind him, he'll get you to the playoffs.
posted by rocketman at 11:19 AM on November 10, 2004
Beltran is also guite over-rated- He has also been bitten by the injury bug over the last few seasonS That's twice today I've seen Beltran described as over-rated. I'll grant you his status as #1 available free agent has left sports talk callers tripping over their tongues to lavish him with praise, but how is he over-rated by anyone who has half a clue? He's a 5-tool guy playing a valuable defensive spot. Why wouldn't you want him? As for the "injury bug", he missed significant time once (2000) in his major league career.
posted by yerfatma at 12:13 PM on November 10, 2004
I think the Yanks would be better off by keeping some of the pitchers they already have. Me too. Keep them all I say. Why does anybody want Randy Johnson??? Pedro is also damged goods in my mind. You're starting to sound like Dan Duquette a little. Wish them well in the twilight of their careers.
posted by jerseygirl at 12:40 PM on November 10, 2004
yerfatma, you'd be crazy not to want him. But you'd also be crazy to give him 15m a year. He's a sub-.900 career OPS guy who hit .258 in his "amazing" time in Houston. His defensive VORP is only something small like 8 outs, IIRC. (which is surely a huge step up from Bernie's -46, but still hardly amazing). He's good, but he's not the superstar he's made out to be.
posted by Bernreuther at 12:44 PM on November 10, 2004
Giambi is another wasted contract! why? because he had the audacity to contract parasites and grow tumors this year? i'm willing to give him this next year to prove himself again before i label him a wasted contract. as for pitching: get rid of brown. resign lieber (with joe girardi most likely a part of the organization now, negotiations may go a little smoother). and like bern, i'll take clement or pavano (NO milton). i certainly wouldn't be upset if they got johnson, but i do not want that to happen if it involves getting rid of posada. i wouldn't mind seeing brad halsey get some more work, maybe as a LOOGY, which the yanks are in desperate need of. (speaking of which, find a way to get rid of felix "the run fairy" heredia)
posted by goddam at 01:32 PM on November 10, 2004
LOOGY? WTH? As for Brown, between them Steinbrenner, Torre and Cashman must know someone who could 'accidentally' give this waste of salary a career-ending (knee?) injury without getting caught. Giambi deserves a chance to get past the injury year but I have to agree that Brown was a terrible choice.
posted by billsaysthis at 02:29 PM on November 10, 2004
Us. The Brown Trade. Last year.
posted by jerseygirl at 02:40 PM on November 10, 2004
LOOGY=left one out guy
posted by goddam at 02:43 PM on November 10, 2004
You're starting to sound like Dan Duquette a little. Let's hope the Sox avoid a repeat performance of that incident. I think the problem with Giambi isn't illness so much as the length of the contract. How old was he when they gave him 7 or 8 years? It's not like the NFL where you can cut the guy whenever the fancy strikes you.
posted by yerfatma at 02:46 PM on November 10, 2004
LOOGY=left one out guy Huh?
posted by billsaysthis at 06:24 PM on November 10, 2004
A left-handed pitcher that comes in for one out.
posted by yerfatma at 06:56 PM on November 10, 2004
OMG, that shows they need to make rosters at least one space lower! Geez.
posted by billsaysthis at 08:03 PM on November 10, 2004
sorry, meant lefty, not left.
posted by goddam at 08:22 PM on November 10, 2004
I think the problem with Giambi isn't illness so much as the length of the contract. How old was he when they gave him 7 or 8 years? he was 31. he'll be 37 when he finishes his 7-year contract. i see your point. personally, i'm more concerned with giambi and this coming season than the other 3 he has remaining.
posted by goddam at 08:54 PM on November 10, 2004
I'm hoping Giambi recovers fully and gets back to somewhere near the production he had two or three years ago. He's a good guy - he was my favorite player in Oakland for a long time. He's gone a lot more corporate in the last three years, but if I had to cheer for one Yankee... :)
posted by dusted at 09:30 PM on November 10, 2004
My point was why add another old guy who could be out with an injury. Pick up a younger starting pitcher who can give you innings. There are several free agents that would fit the bill.
posted by daddisamm at 12:11 AM on November 11, 2004
Beltran did miss some games in 2002 with an injury as well. He is overated--He can hit the long ball and is an above average fielder- But his is a very streaky player his .289 career BA proves that. I am just saying he is not worth the money that he is going to get...
posted by daddisamm at 08:26 AM on November 11, 2004
But his is a very streaky player his .289 career BA proves that. How does hitting .289 prove anything about being a "steaky player"? How does it prove anything except that in 100 at-bats, he gets a hit about 29 times?
posted by rocketman at 08:48 AM on November 11, 2004
My point was why add another old guy who could be out with an injury. Pick up a younger starting pitcher who can give you innings. I'm looking at Randy's stats and I see 2003 and 1996. Two years where he was out hurt. And he's getting older. Now show me all the young pitchers that have the potential to give you 200+ innings at 150% of average league performance.
posted by yerfatma at 09:38 AM on November 11, 2004
Randy Johnson not worth it? This is the same argument from the good people in Dallas who suggested that Shaq wasn't a good aquisition. Yeah, good move if you're not interested in a title. If it's about winning (and last time I checked it was) than go get Randy - he's hands down the best. This is not complicated.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 10:52 AM on November 11, 2004
Time will tell about Johnson! nice discussion
posted by daddisamm at 01:11 PM on November 11, 2004
Sign arguably the best player in baseball, trade for arguably the best left-handed pitcher of our generation. That would rebuild the Mariners, Brewers and Blue Jays too (I would have said the Royals...but they had Beltran and still sucked).