November 09, 2004

Good for Roger-I wonder if he'll retire now!

posted by daddisamm at 02:28 PM on November 09, 2004

It could very easily happen to a nicer guy.

posted by chicobangs at 04:46 PM on November 09, 2004

A little OT, interesting but not FPP worthy: Taxpayer-Financed Baseball in Our Nation's Capital: A Steal for Baseball, Reverse Commuter Tax for DC Source: National Taxpayers Union

posted by billsaysthis at 05:33 PM on November 09, 2004

He's a legend and an "first-ballot", "inner-circle" hall-of-famer. Even more so in his own mind. He's like a giant child. The best thing about the red sox finally winning the WS is clemens wasn't involved.

posted by justgary at 11:15 PM on November 09, 2004

This might finally start to sway those HOF voters when he becomes eligible 5 years after retiring. He was really on the fence before, but now.... well, it's those magic numbers that make it hard to turn down a guy for the HOF: 500 HR... 3000 hits.... 300 wins... 7 Cy Youngs... Seriously, though, we take for granted that he's one of the greatest pitchers of all time, dominant for so many years, maybe not frighteningly lethal at his best the way Johnson can be, or Pedro from 1998-2001 or so, but extremely tough to beat, durable as all hell, built like a Clydesdale. One can certainly argue his win in the voting, but he was right up there, as legit a candidate as any. And it helped that he started very, very strong: put the thought into voter's heads early that he was a legit candidate, and not a guy who like Mays just couldn't let go. If the D-Backs score some runs, though, Randy very likely gets his 6th to tie Clemens for most all-time, instead of a 7-5 split. Randy is a far better pitcher in the sense of a 'potential no-hitter every night' kind of starter, but has been that way for only about a decade or so (which further underscores the awesomeness of his counting stats, including wins and strikeouts); Clemens has been a fucking god of the mound for two decades, and can bring it as well now at 42 as he did when he was 24. In the hypothetical 'If I had one game to win' category, I'd pick Johnson, who in his prime, and even now is probably the toughest pitcher in the game (the Pedro of old, in his prime, was even more devastating, but Johnson's maintained that level for nearly a decade, whereas Pedro was like that for maybe 4-5 years, and is only a shadow of himself, torn shoulder and all). Johnson would even get my vote for the greatest pitcher of all time, in terms of utter dominance, counting stats, and longevity (if not Clemens/Ryan like, he's been around for a good long while, and a #1 since about '93, unlike a Pedro or a Sandy Koufax). But both Johnson and Clemens are in such rarified air, there's little point to quibbling: Simmon's great "Pyramid Hall of Fame" is all the more useful n cases like this, where you realize that the Clemens and Johnsons are just in an awesome, untouchable class that even most other HOFers can never approach.

posted by hincandenza at 12:11 AM on November 10, 2004

Let it go, dude. We won the World Series. Alternatively we could start a thread on Ty Cobb's batting titles.

posted by yerfatma at 06:26 AM on November 10, 2004

JustGary, that was a really cool interview with Pat Jordan you linked. Talk about an honest guy, just look at his answer on Meg Ryan (his daughter-in-law).

posted by billsaysthis at 02:44 PM on November 10, 2004

Let it go, dude. We won the World Series. Alternatively we could start a thread on Ty Cobb's batting titles. Sorry yerfatma, it aint gonna happen ;) 50 years from now when people talk about clemens as a god I will still be doing my best to paint a more complete picture of his career, much as with only statistics we wouldn't know what a jerk ty cobb was. I don't care if no one listens, it makes me feel better. It has nothing to do with letting anything go. Clemens has been a great pitcher for a loooong time. I always thought he was the prototype power pitcher, along with ryan, and he's used his strengths to put up some awesome numbers. I give him mad props (as the kids say). Could he touch pedro in pedro's prime? No way. Would he do what schilling did? Come to boston to win a championship and fight through pain to get it done? Not a chance. Clemens may go down as the greatest ever, but if you needed one pitcher to win one game and you look through out the history of baseball clemens wouldn't be anywhere near the top. I could list 10 reasons I despise the man, beginning with the whole naming his children beginning with the letter 'k' and ending with the "I'm retiring, no I'm not" crap but I admit it's not the thread to do it. (and yes, I'm fully aware I sound like a broken record.) At least the man is consistent. It's always been about him. "I could have had one of my biggest winning seasons ever," he said last night, noting that with a little more run support he could have had 24 or 25 wins. You tell'em roger! Damn teammates.

posted by justgary at 11:39 PM on November 10, 2004