11/21/24
August 31, 2004
"The largest loss of their history." : Yankees lose to, of all teams, the Cleveland Indians 22-0. Major League, anyone?
posted by lil_brown_bat to baseball at 09:46 PM - 34 comments
The AL wild card race is getting mighty interesting. Oakland, Boston, Anaheim and Texas have been contenders, but I think it's time to add New York. Also, it looks like the Yankees got fleeced on the Loaiza/Contreras trade.
posted by dusted at 11:28 PM on August 31, 2004
Good thing the Indians had an error or it would really have gotten out of control.
posted by kirkaracha at 01:11 AM on September 01, 2004
The bar I was in tonight turned it off at 19-0. Boy I bet they're sorry they did.
posted by chicobangs at 01:18 AM on September 01, 2004
It will be a very interesting September- but New York still has an edge, just as Boston has. Whereas Boston can now quite feasibly overtake NYY for the AL East lead, whichever of the two is relegated to fighting for the wild card spot in that final week or so would then compete with 2-3 other teams. However, while the Sox/Yankees match up a couple of times between now and October (likely to determine the AL East winner) their last series' are otherwise quite cushiony: divisional never-rans in Tampa Bay, Baltimore, et al. By comparison, the 3 leading AL West teams all play each other- so unless it's a perfect balance of wins and losses, one team will likely emerge the AL West victor, the others enduring too many losses in that blood bath to even get the wild card. But anything can happen, and the margins are too thin to predict. With Boston facing its three competitors, by the middle of next week Beantown might be riding high and steamrolling into October- or may be so bruised as to be unrecoverable. I have both personal interest and statistical reason to say that Boston stays hot through September: they'd been playing below their Pythagoras for much of the year, while the Yankees had been way above. Almost every team falls within a game or two of their Pythagorean number by the end of the year, although the occasional outlier (2001 Mariners and their 116 wins, for example) will happen. This suggests the Yankees averaging back to their "true" state and the Sox doing likewise, making this appear to be a heroic run by the Sox to catch the Yankees- and yet but for timing, the Sox would have been leading all along. Oh yes, it will be a most interesting summer! My dream scenario is Boston winning the AL East, with Texas impossibly snagging the AL west or wildcard title. This would not only make the Yankees non-contenders, but would put A-Rod in the awkward position of having left a non-contender, only to see it thrive (the second time this has happened!), and his new team get worse in his presence. Alex is probably a decent guy, and one of the greatest players in history, but it would be sure satisfying to watch him stay at home for yet another fall.... But my inclination is still NYY taking the east in a close race, with Boston snagging the wild card with Oakland stealing the west. Even with 32 games to go, 3 games in the standing can be a mile, knowing that the teams play each other. There could be a big reversal of fortune, but I suspect (without evidence) that these sorts of complex brawls introduced by the wild card end in about the same place they started. So yeah.... it's still just one game, but the last two weeks have been... brutal on NY. I couldn't be happier! :) On preview: I've long thought, and perhaps should finally create (ha! like I have free time!) a simple constraint propagation solution to these final week matchup scenarios. I've often wondered if, when they say the magic number is X, if in fact the season is actively over for a team a few days ahead of then simply because their two or more competitors can't all lose, and thus any distribution of wins and losses will always leave someone further ahead than they were before. In effect, that there will come a point mathematically where say Texas can't possibly win, because to do so would require the A's, Angels, and Sox to all lose- even though some of those teams play each other, and therefore some of those teams will certainly win..
posted by hincandenza at 01:21 AM on September 01, 2004
An addendum, as I ashamedly realize what a word-heavy spew I just left on this post: Ever notice how baseball, the only sport that doesn't even pretend to send its players to college before going pro, attracts the literati as its fans? And what is it about Sox fans in particular that makes us so verbose and impassioned? I know Mariners fans here in Seattle never suffer from logorrhea!
posted by hincandenza at 01:23 AM on September 01, 2004
And what is it about Sox fans in particular that makes us so verbose and impassioned? All those colleges in Boston that get a new crop of frosh each year who come from somewhere baseball doesn't matter. Or isn't as passionately followed. The rest of us were just born smart.
posted by yerfatma at 06:15 AM on September 01, 2004
How do you like it, ya big bullies.
posted by sixpacker at 07:29 AM on September 01, 2004
To be honest, the New York Yankees more closely fit the profile of the Indians team in Major League: You have the good-guy-everybody-likes-him-but-might-be-past-his-prime hero in Jorge Posada. There's the over-the-hill has-been pitcher from the South in Kevin Brown. In Jeter you have the spoiled, pretty-boy infielder. And in Loaiza you have the hotshot pitcher with great stuff who's a total choke.
posted by rocketman at 10:20 AM on September 01, 2004
Or I could just be full of shit too.
posted by rocketman at 10:20 AM on September 01, 2004
Or I could just be full of shit too. Not full of shit, but you missed on one detail: the spoiled, pretty-boy infielder in the movie played third, not short. ;-)
posted by lil_brown_bat at 10:23 AM on September 01, 2004
Anyone watch this game on YES? Michael Kay cracks me up. Jeter made a routine play at short, spun around and threw a runner out. I think they were down 12-0 at that point, and Kay praised it beyond belief. Does he get paid by the complement? Because he obviously isn't earning $$$ to be objective.
posted by usfbull at 11:15 AM on September 01, 2004
the spoiled, pretty-boy infielder in the movie played third, not short. Nice.
posted by rocketman at 11:26 AM on September 01, 2004
posted by yerfatma at 12:16 PM on September 01, 2004
Does he get paid by the complement? Because he obviously isn't earning $$$ to be objective. well, when you're watching the Yankees Entertainment and Sports Network i think you have to expect some home town bias. kay goes overboard sometimes but he doesn't shy away from criticizing them either.
posted by goddam at 01:35 PM on September 01, 2004
I love how Simmons casually dismisses the likes of A-Rod. Although Yankee pitching hasn't looked this beatable in a long time. But that line-up... I wouldn't want to play 'em. And prior to their 22-0 shelacking, I saw the Yanks play in Toronto for 4 days and they can still smoke.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 02:43 PM on September 01, 2004
I love how Simmons casually dismisses the likes of A-Rod. As a Sox fan, I would have loved to have gotten A-Rod. However, I don't think Simmons "dismisses" A-Rod so much as points out he's not that dangerous when it matters this year. I think his point is you'd be relieved to see A-Rod instead of Sheffield when the game was on the line. Check out some of the splits at the bottom of that page. Yes they're small samples, but 0 for 10 with the bases loaded? .182 with men on and 2 outs? .143 with RISP with 2 outs? That's dismissable.
posted by yerfatma at 03:57 PM on September 01, 2004
As surprising as the outcome was, it should not be that curious that the Tribe bats were the ones doing the spanking. They're only second in the league in OBP and runs scored (to the hot BoSox, natch) even while maintaining the inconsistency of youth. Next year, this is going to be a dangerous team, especially if you subscribe to the notion that doubles power in young hitters eventually becomes home-run power.
posted by avogadro at 04:25 PM on September 01, 2004
Yeah, another starter and a veteran DH would make the Tribe a good bet in the AL Central next year.
posted by yerfatma at 07:16 PM on September 01, 2004
Yerfatma - yeah those splits are shit, so you'd still feel safe facing A-Rod with the bases juiced in the playoffs this year? Naw. That Yankees line-up is deadly. And Sierra and Clark have been phenomenal.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 12:46 AM on September 02, 2004
you'd still feel safe facing A-Rod with the bases juiced in the playoffs this year? Naw. That Yankees line-up is deadly. And Sierra and Clark have been phenomenal. Well, which way does it go for you? Either this year's performance matters or it doesn't. Did I say anything about feeling "safe"? No, I didn't and you must know that's not what I meant (the situation itself, bases loaded, precludes ever feeling safe) so I'd say that's an unfair assertion. But if A-Rod's down season doesn't matter, why should anyone pay attention to Sierra or Clark's performance? And neither of those guys scares me as a clutch hitter.
posted by yerfatma at 06:05 AM on September 02, 2004
Back in 1992, the Toronto Blue Jays were leading the AL-East when they faced the Milwaukee Brewers one night in September. They got hammered 22-4. These same Toronto Blue Jays won the World Series that year. One game doesn't mean anything.
posted by grum@work at 07:03 AM on September 02, 2004
That's what I get for trying to go by memory. The score was 22-2, and it was in August of 1992. Boxscore
posted by grum@work at 10:01 AM on September 02, 2004
'Sfunny: Pat Listach was mentioned on TV just last night. Maybe because Vizquel's 6 hit game was the first in the AL since Listach (though he only wnet 4-6 in the game you linked)?
posted by yerfatma at 10:44 AM on September 02, 2004
It's getting very interesting, and no matter what happens now we know those who doubed the trade of nomar were mistaken. The sox have been smokin' ever since.
posted by justgary at 01:33 PM on September 02, 2004
Yerfatma - because it matters both ways - Sierra and Clark have done great things this year, which matters because they haven't done so (recently) in the past (though Sierra was certainly good last year as well). If they were having bad seasons, no one would care because it would not be a surprise. Hence this year they are dangerous. With A-Rod his career average with RISP is .313 - so he's done it with good consistency up until this year, which is why this season is the surprise. But I think one would be hard-pressed to find a baseball person who truly thinks that A-Rod can't hit in the clutch, or isn't as good as both Sheffield and Matsui. Hence he too is dangerous despite the numbers. That's why numbers mean shit on a game-to-game basis. They work as an evaluation as a whole. This is why when the post-season starts, people like Simmons, who seem to be able to talk about Sheffield and Matsui like they're the only Yankees worth worrying about, will pay attention again and maybe realize just how potent this Yankee line-up is. It is better than the Red Sox. More power sources; more walks; more speed.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 02:08 PM on September 02, 2004
It is better than the Red Sox. More power sources; more walks; more speed. If only the numbers bore that out. They're about even.
posted by yerfatma at 02:17 PM on September 02, 2004
Actually, the Red Sox are way ahead. Primarily it seems on the strength of their current hot streak. So I think it comes down to pitching. With the Red Sox holding a distinct advantage in every area but late-game bullpen. So, how do the Yankees keep winning more games?
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 04:01 PM on September 02, 2004
Primarily it seems on the strength of [the Red Sox'] current hot streak . . . So, how do the Yankees keep winning more games? I don't think they will. The Sox have played way below their Pythagorean and the Yankees have been way above. Things seem to be truing out here. Take the whole Sox/ Yanks thing out of it. These are two teams starting to play closer to their real selves (I hope).
posted by yerfatma at 05:12 PM on September 02, 2004
The Sox have played way below their Pythagorean... What about their Gregorian? Statdork! ;)
posted by dusted at 06:20 PM on September 02, 2004
Did anyone (else) notice that JerseyGirl is MIA?
posted by billsaysthis at 06:36 PM on September 02, 2004
Maybe because Vizquel's 6 hit game was the first in the AL since Listach (though he only wnet 4-6 in the game you linked)? Nope. I remember when Frank Catalanotto did it earlier this season. Plus I think it's been done just recently in the NL as well, but I can't remember who it was. Did anyone (else) notice that JerseyGirl is MIA? Hopefully it's a vacation and she'll be back in time for the Red Sox October collapse....er...playoffs.
posted by grum@work at 07:30 PM on September 02, 2004
What about their Gregorian? Statdork! ;) "Julian" would have been 14% funnier </Mandark> I think jg said she was cutting back on contributing. Maybe the wedding. Maybe worldcup scaring her off.
posted by yerfatma at 07:34 PM on September 02, 2004
me, 09/01: I have both personal interest and statistical reason to say that Boston stays hot through September: they'd been playing below their Pythagoras for much of the year, while the Yankees had been way above. yerfatma, 09/02: I don't think they will. The Sox have played way below their Pythagorean and the Yankees have been way above. Yerfatma, we meet with pistols at dawn!!!
posted by hincandenza at 09:15 PM on September 02, 2004
I saw that score on My Yahoo and just went WTF?!?!?!