11/05/24
May 13, 2004
Catchers masks, they aren't just for behind the plate anymore.: Jorge Posada broke up a double play with his nose last night. Also broken: Posada's nose. It wasn't pretty. He's already had surgery and expected to miss just a few games.
posted by jerseygirl to baseball at 01:06 PM - 30 comments
ow ow ow
posted by corpse at 01:19 PM on May 13, 2004
How does he get back behind the plate after just a few games? I don't understand.
posted by jerseygirl at 01:26 PM on May 13, 2004
so, jg, what's with the eye poking and nose breaking posts today? as long as the swelling goes down he should be ok. he basically said that catching is probably the least of his concerns, what with the mask and all. don't know if he'll have to wear one of those phantom of the opera masks on the bases those.
posted by goddam at 01:32 PM on May 13, 2004
One was Boston, one was NY. I'm an equal opportunist when it comes to heebie jeebie freak accidents. :) I'm just wondering if something foul tips him off the mask or if a bat gets a piece of him. The catcher is probably one of the worst positions to suffer a facial injury.
posted by jerseygirl at 01:40 PM on May 13, 2004
unless the mask shatters, i think he'd be ok from a foul tip. if he still has a headache then a shot off the mask could make it worse. but i think his nose is fairly safe. a play at the plate may be a different story. but he usually keeps his mask on. i'm more concerned about any effects this may have on his eyesight. i've had more facial injuries playing third than i did when i was catching.
posted by goddam at 01:57 PM on May 13, 2004
And now on to the other situation... Gammons is on the radio, says Posada came in high and its interference, but rarely called as such, but it is. He called it "unfortunate". Torre doesn't think the SS needed to submarine that throw... Always no good when someone gets hurt, nevermind a ball to the face... You're ump for the day. What say you?
posted by jerseygirl at 02:17 PM on May 13, 2004
i'd have to see the clip again, but i don't think he came in high. i think it was just bad timing on where jorge was in his slide and where the SS released the ball. he was however, trying to break up the DP and he slid more towards the SS and not the bag. unless they start cracking down on everyone who doesn't slide into the bag i wouldn't call interference. the sidearm throw didn't help matters. but the SS is still a newbie so i'll cut him some slack. posada doesn't blame him one bit and i think it's because he knows his slide was off course.
posted by goddam at 02:44 PM on May 13, 2004
How could it be a rule infraction when he was trying to interfere with the SS, just like every runner is instructed to do in that situation?
posted by garfield at 02:56 PM on May 13, 2004
There's a difference in how the dp is broken up, Garfield. You're either sliding in low or coming in high. He didn't strike me as coming in too high from what i saw last night, but everyone keeps saying he did. I'll have to check out the clip later tonight or something to see.
posted by jerseygirl at 03:01 PM on May 13, 2004
Sliding in low isn't, apparently, considered an infraction.
posted by jerseygirl at 03:01 PM on May 13, 2004
Wow, I really don't know squat about this game. Is it against the rules to peg a base runner? Does one have to slide to get to 2nd, or can the runner stand up the whole trip? Can the base-runner wave his arms to distract the SS? I think I left a clue at home today.
posted by garfield at 03:13 PM on May 13, 2004
i can't find anything in the MLB rule book about sliding and interference. but there is no "must slide" rule. you can stand up the whole trip. if you deliberately get in the way of a thrown ball (like reggie's hipcheck in the WS against the dodgers), that's interference. but i don't think jorge deliberately put his face in front of the ball. he was just trying to make the throw for the SS more difficult.
posted by goddam at 03:19 PM on May 13, 2004
i guess this is the rule that would apply. 7.09 It is interference by a batter or a runner when: (f) Any batter or runner who has just been put out hinders or impedes any following play being made on a runner. Such runner shall be declared out for the interference of his teammate; If the batter or a runner continues to advance after he has been put out, he shall not by that act alone be considered as confusing, hindering or impeding the fielders. the "hinders" bit seems to be where the judgement call comes in.
posted by goddam at 03:45 PM on May 13, 2004
like i said, i need to see the film again. peg him how? there's no hard rule on sliding, but i believe, as a baserunner, you can't hinder a fielder from attempting to make a play. isn't "interfering" easily defined as "trying to make the throw for the SS more difficult"? Hey, I know he wasn't trying to get his nose broke, he was just doing what he was "supposed" to as a baserunner. I like "quotes" today apparently.
posted by jerseygirl at 03:48 PM on May 13, 2004
The funny thing about this is that I've always wondered why this doesn't happen more often. Maybe I'm a sadistic bastard, but if I'm a SS and I see a runner sliding high on a play where I know I can't turn the other end of a DP, I'd have a hard time resisting drilling the guy right in the melon. I guess the reason this doesn't happen more often is that the SS in question would be sure to receive his payback next time he comes to bat.
posted by Scott Carefoot at 03:50 PM on May 13, 2004
peg him how? I meant hit him with the ball. I also could've used bean, tag, drill, etc. scott, if the runner was trying to 'interfere,' why would it be payback?
posted by garfield at 04:02 PM on May 13, 2004
garfield: All I'm saying is that if the runner thinks the SS nailed him in the face on purpose, don't you think he'd tell his pitcher? And what if that pitcher is, say...Roger Clemens?
posted by Scott Carefoot at 04:05 PM on May 13, 2004
I guess the reason this doesn't happen more often is that the SS in question would be sure to receive his payback next time he comes to bat. and maybe that pesky little thing called a conscience prevents the SS from breaking the runner's face or possibly even killing him. imho, a dirty slide is not condonable but throwing at someone's head (especially at close range) is criminal.
posted by goddam at 04:06 PM on May 13, 2004
but the runner is breaking a rule by being in the throwing lane, especially if he is running/sliding wide to interfere with the throw. scott, I get ya. I just don't get this rule.
posted by garfield at 04:33 PM on May 13, 2004
i'm talking about a deliberate throw at someone's face or head. if you're making the play and the runner gets in the way of the thrown ball (like it did last night), there's nothing much to be done. but, like in scott's example, if a runner is coming in high and there's no play to be made at first and you deliberately throw the ball in the runner's face, that's just wrong. if after the SS tagged 2nd and forced out the runner, and said runner came in standing up and just kept on running right into the SS trying to turn the DP without trying to get out of his way, that's a more clear cut case of interfering with the throw. sliding into the base in which you are being forced out would negate that interference. the key there is "into". i'm not sure how far away from the bag you have to be to no longer be considered sliding into a base. i believe you have to be able to reach the base with and extended hand or leg or something (or maybe that's just little league rules). anyway, i'd have to see the clip again to make the judgement on whether there was interference on jorge's part. but, like i said, if they called it on jorge they better start calling it on everyone (which wouldn't be a bad idea).
posted by goddam at 04:49 PM on May 13, 2004
a deliberate throw to the noggin is kinda cruel, eh?
posted by garfield at 05:01 PM on May 13, 2004
I was watching the game and saw the replay several times. It really wasn't any different than any other DP we've all seen countless times, except for the fluke of an outcome. Posada said it's "just something that happens in baseball."
posted by crank at 05:39 PM on May 13, 2004
Haven't seen the play, but my understanding is most every SS throws that ball sidearm or lower than normal to discourage players from sliding in high. Some people don't take a hint.
posted by yerfatma at 06:12 PM on May 13, 2004
I saw the clip a couple of time, and could be I'm misremembering...but my immpression was that the SS looked right at Posada and threw the ball right where he was lookiing. I'm sure I must be wrong about that, because we'd be hearing the screams of outrage, but that was my thought when I saw the clip. Sure looked scary.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:54 PM on May 13, 2004
I saw the clip too - what's the big deal? This stuff almost happens all the time - it didn't look dirty to me, it looked slightly deflected by Posada into his face. He busted his nose. He'll be back. Dude, next time duck.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 12:52 AM on May 14, 2004
Is it against the rules to peg a base runner? There's an exception if the base runner is Jorge Posada. Go on, look it up.
posted by etagloh at 05:14 AM on May 14, 2004
According to the picture Jgirl posted, either Posada's not out of the basepath (if the base is directly in front of him) or he's WAYYY out of the basepath (if SS Amezaga had hopped away from the bag crossing to take the throw). If he's sliding off toward the left-field side, it's his own damned fault for being out of the path. If he's coming right at the back, then it's just lousy luck. "I don't think he should have gone underneath like that. I thought he could have just gone over the top," manager Joe Torre said. "I'm not saying he wanted to hurt him, but I thought it was unnecessary to do that." This is a stupid comment by Torre, though. Any shortstop is going to attempt to complete the DP instinctually by what he feels is the quickest method. Obviously, Amezaga felt whipping the ball sidearm was his best bet, and Posada's melon got in the way. There's little "thought" involved, and Torre's implication without an implication that it could have been done differently is a horseass way of trying to blame the kid.
posted by wfrazerjr at 09:38 AM on May 14, 2004
Amezaga said Posada waited a bit too long to get down into a slide, but Posada said, "No, I'm just late on everything. I'm slow, and I was not even near the bag." he was off on the right field side.
posted by goddam at 09:57 AM on May 14, 2004
Whoops, I meant right-field side. Sliding towards left wouldn't do you any good. I'm also glad Posada seems like he's going to be ok. For a member of the Evil Empire, he doesn't seem too evil-ly to me.
posted by wfrazerjr at 11:02 AM on May 14, 2004
heard jorge on the radio today. everyone thought it hit his hand before hitting his face but it only brushed his fingertips. so he basically took it square in the face.