11/21/24
February 01, 2002
When rivalries go comatose: Duke and Carolina have played some incredible games over the past several decades, but last night was brutal. I initially nearly titled this 'where rivalries go to die' but I want to hope Carolina will be back... Duke would not be the same without them.
[Note that I filed this under general since (from a basketball perspective) there isn't much to talk about.]
Corpse: I love Duke, to a probably unhealthy level, but last night was just bad. Give me 77-75 any day over a total mopping-the-floor clinical execution like last night. Since Carolina is unlikely to recover until 2003-2004 at the earliest, it seems like it'll be a long time until I see that kind of close, heated game again, and that's sort of sad...
posted by tieguy at 01:24 PM on February 01, 2002
I can't stand 77-75 on Duke games. They make my physically ill. My heartbeat increases, I break out into a sweat and start throwing my hat at the tv. After the 99 uconn game, I just went into the bathroom and threw up, passed out and woke up the next day and skipped school. Give me 106-64 anyday.
posted by corpse at 01:27 PM on February 01, 2002
The rivalry I miss most these days is Colorado/Detroit in the NHL. Their late-'90s clashes were incredible, both for the intensity of the hockey and the brawling -- the Lemieux cheap shot on Kris Draper, Darren McCarty's response the next year, and the two fights between goalies Patrick Roy and Chris Osgood. The teams are both good today, but without Lemiuex it isn't the same.
posted by rcade at 01:33 PM on February 01, 2002
the tarheels will be back. a half dozen years ago or so, duke was at the bottom of the acc. until then, new rivalies will develop, especially in the best college basketball conference in the land. now the rivalry is maryland-duke. (though the terps played a great game last night with their more traditional rival, virginia...) the last five maryland-duke games have all been phenomenal. the second half of this year's game in durham wasn't quite up to the standard, but the first half was one of the greatest halves i've ever seen. when the blue devils come back to cole field house, the intensity and bad-blood that epitomizes a rivalry will be in full display.
posted by danostuporstar at 02:07 PM on February 01, 2002
Except I don't know anyone (Duke or Carolina) who thinks that Duke-Maryland is 1/2 as important as Duke-Carolina, no matter how brilliant the last five games were, or how bad Carolina is. Sure, the Maryland fans hate Duke, but that isn't reciprocal at all. One-sided animosity + good, hard-fought basketball is not a rivalry. That's a distinction Andy Katz and the rest of the ESPN crowd (not to mention the Terps) completely fail to understand.
posted by tieguy at 02:16 PM on February 01, 2002
you have a point: unrequited. give us a few years, we'll make you hate us :)
posted by danostuporstar at 02:42 PM on February 01, 2002
whoops, there's that s-word.
posted by corpse at 02:53 PM on February 01, 2002
i didn't say it ... my link was purely for its sociological value. heh heh
posted by danostuporstar at 02:58 PM on February 01, 2002
dano: honestly, I pretty much like these Terps. Juan Dixon actually shook my hand after the game in Cameron last year- he's probably the most class act I think I've ever seen, and better have his jersey retired if there is any justice in the world. And the game in Cole will be a monster battle that I'm eagerly anticipating. Just... dunno, don't get your hopes up. We've had some bad years where lots of teams have taken it to us, but Carolina was still the only team we had a good, steady loathing for, even when everyone was creaming us steadily. And now that we're on top- well, it is hard to really loathe a team you've beaten 8 out of the last 10 games, but we manage to loathe Carolina. Somehow, beating the Terps 8 of the last 10 games doesn't have nearly as fun a feel to it.
posted by tieguy at 03:24 PM on February 01, 2002
i understand that duke fans aren't really interested in dancing with us. the terps don't have a rival like nc-duke. i like virginia, root for them to be number two in the league. i have to go to the nfl for a comparable rivalry. if the redskins only win two games in a season, it's still an OK season if those two wins were against dallas. that's the kind of rivalry you're talking about. even if md/duke is a classic matchup for the next five years -- and nc doesn't get rid of Doherty continues to be bad -- you'll still will consider the tar heels to be the rival. but a 15 year old in 2005 in that scenario will probably consider the terps to be the rival. (as in redskins/cowboys, there doesn't necessarily need to be a geographical element to create the rivalry.) so what is necessary? X number of fans on both sides need to have a particular opponent circled on the schedule preseason? i think most duke fans would have maryland circled back in september as the team to beat (even though no one could have known nc would be quite this bad). but your right, this fact bears nothing on rivalry status. so, is a rivalry completely tied to history? once the duke-nc rivalry became established, there is absolutely no circumstance in which it could be dethroned?
posted by danostuporstar at 03:45 PM on February 01, 2002
so, is a rivalry completely tied to history? once the duke-nc rivalry became established, there is absolutely no circumstance in which it could be dethroned?
I have no idea, to be honest. In most rivalries, I'd say yes- the passage of time and the lack of conflict can dull anything. That said, Duke-Carolina is unlike any other rivalry in sports, except for maybe Inter Milan and AC-Milan- the rivalry is not just 'regional' but between next door neighbors, and with overtones of class warfare as well. It is as if Yankee Field were in Cambridge, or if the Cowboys played in Arlington. To work with your example- a 15 year old Duke fan in 2005 who grew up in North Carolina will have seen a lot of great basketball games against Maryland, but they will have spent their entire childhood taunted based on what sweatshirt they wore to class, even when Carolina was losing. And vice-versa. And that taunting will not have come at the hands of Maryland fans. So... dunno. I don't think your example is valid. But I have no way of proving that for sure, until we spank them for a lot more years.
posted by tieguy at 04:12 PM on February 01, 2002
dano, i root for UVA too. I watched only the last 3 minutes of the UMd - UVA game - what a killer. UNC will be back, with George Karl at the head.
posted by djacobs at 12:55 AM on February 02, 2002
Really, Karl? I figured if any of the NBA UNC alum decided to do it, it would be Larry Brown, or course he might be too old when the job opens up again.
posted by corpse at 10:22 AM on February 02, 2002
corpse: the word post-Roy was that both Karl and Brown were dying to get the job. However, Karl couldn't get out of a very tight contract in his current job, and Brown was Dean's choice but the AD (Dick Baddour) felt Larry was too old and so overruled Dean. ESPN had a piece on it here. (And yes, I own an 'I said No To Dean' t-shirt. :)
posted by tieguy at 11:07 AM on February 02, 2002
So... dunno. I don't think your example is valid. apparently calista flockhart's ass is wider than your definition of a rivalry. it's almost as if you are suggesting people outside the research triangle (or what was it? milan?) cannot even grok what a true rivalry really is. believe me, i was very young when i learned to despise kids wearing silver sweatshirts with blue stars on them. there are lots of cowboys fans in the washington area, both from out-of-town and the particularly heinous beltway-born variety. my point is simply that rivalries can and do change. lemme try this for a valid example: the alabama rolltide is the tennessee volunteers long-time traditional rival in football. however, due to the creation of east & west divisions within the SEC and the florida gators preeminence in the conference in recent history, i--as a tennessee fan--keep close tabs on when and where the vols will play the gators each year. i think most fans are like me and view florida as the enemy these days. if you wanna continue to look down your nose at the rest of the ACC, if we are not even worthy of your contempt, that's great news to me. i sincerely hope the entire duke program and fanbase shares your attitude. because north carolina is at the point where their recruiting power is next-to-nil and they may well be down for years. if duke cannot, will not, pick up a new rival, the competitive edge will inevitably dull ... and maybe finally both the damned carolina teams in blue will be at the bottom of the standings for the first time in my life.
posted by danostuporstar at 11:51 PM on February 02, 2002
I really enjoyed last night's game. Of course I enjoy blowouts when teams I like are on the giving end.