11/05/24
April 22, 2004
Gee, that didn't take long.: Ottawa is wasting no time in cleaning house. Jacques Martin was fired just 2 days after losing game 7 to Leafs. I think this is good move. In the end the coach is the one who has to find a way to get the most from his players (see all 3 coachs nominated for the Jack Adams). Martin has never ben able to inspire the team to reach that next level. It's time to let someone else have a try.
Martin is a great coach. He out Lemaired Lemaire. However, his in-game decision making did come into question. But he didn't lose the series for them. He didn't win it either, but that's expected. Coaches are supposed to negate eachother's influence on the game, and not win or lose a series. I think Alfredsson blew his load on the wrong game. He looked amazing in game 6 and in game 7 he looked like a chump. I suggest moving the C as well.
posted by garfield at 02:09 PM on April 22, 2004
Martin is a good guy, but for whatever reason he never really seemed to 'click' with his players. Chicobangs is right; Martin won't be out of work for long. The next question is who do you get to replace Martin? Joe Quinville is still available I beleive. How about Ted Nolan? (Hah, that would be funny) Or do you not bother getting a new coach until the CBA is taken care of?
posted by camcanuck at 02:18 PM on April 22, 2004
Ottawa fans suck. They love to single someone out and blame everything on that guy. "Oh, if only we didn't have that guy dragging the whole team down -- if we could find that one missing piece -- the Stanley Cup would be a lock." It's so predictable. This year it was Lalime. But in the past it's been Kravchuk, Yashin, and Tom Barrasso as I recall. Firing Jacques is just a more extreme version of this idiocy. The point is, I don't think Ottawa has the money to put a Cup-winning team on the ice. Period. (But I haven't seen the numbers, admittedly.)
posted by molafson at 02:29 PM on April 22, 2004
It might be the right move, but it still sucks. I can't say it any better than that. Given some of the coaching antics in the league right now (Hitchcock's crosshairs on Marty Havlat last playoffs, Pat Quinn bringing up Bryan Berard last week, for pete's sake), I've always had a tremendous amount of respect for Martin's integrity and ability to keep things under control. I don't know why "control" couldn't translate into "success on the ice", and apparently neither did he. It's really tough to see where the team will go from here. It's such a home-grown group, with an unusual number of players cultivated from a series of draft picks , and they all grew up under Martin. Perhaps that's part of the problem; they were in a healthy environment that allowed them to mature in their play and skill, but such a womb disconnected them from the reality of the NHL. Will the players welcome and adjust to the exposure to the outside world which a new coach will bring? Or will the team chemistry and attitudes need to be destroyed and built up from scratch?
posted by DrJohnEvans at 02:41 PM on April 22, 2004
Dr.J, I couldn't have summed up the Senators any better. They are unique, but that uniqueness has its +s and -s.
posted by garfield at 02:49 PM on April 22, 2004
The point is, I don't think Ottawa has the money to put a Cup-winning team on the ice. Period. (But I haven't seen the numbers, admittedly.) Here are some numbers:
- $0- Ottawa's bank balance after declaring bankruptcy last year
- 1 - The number of goals by which Ottawa lost to New Jersey in Game 7 of the Conference Final, thus missing the chance to play Anaheim for the Stanley Cup
posted by DrJohnEvans at 02:52 PM on April 22, 2004
Ottawa fans suck. They love to single someone out and blame everything on that guy. What an ignorant comment. How is that different from any other team's fans, in any sport? Let's look at Toronto...should I bother bringing up Larry Murphy, Dmitri Khristich, Kerry Fraser, Curtis Joseph, Shayne Corson, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc? I suggest moving the C as well. I have never heard a single person suggest this who wasn't a Leaf fan. Sorry to say it, but it's true. Ask anybody around the league not from Toronto who they think Ottawa's captain should be. Anyway. Nobody in Ottawa likes the firing but nobody disagrees with it either. This year's loss to the Leafs was the same as any other. Jacques cannot be held blameless when he's had nine years. His steadfast refusal to adjust his system under playoff pressure has played a large part in his departure. His players have reached a plateau under his philosophy of neutral-zone choreography and need to be taught how to win by any means necessary. I see Larry Robinson as the next coach.
posted by Succa at 09:22 AM on April 23, 2004
Succa, did you like the way Alfredsson played in game 7, which should be the game your captain makes his mark? That's all I'm saying. I think he's a great player, but he is not devoid of responsibility for the team's failure to win when it counted. It comes with being the captain.
posted by garfield at 09:31 AM on April 23, 2004
What an ignorant comment. How is that different from any other team's fans, in any sport? Let's look at Toronto...should I bother bringing up Larry Murphy, Dmitri Khristich, Kerry Fraser, Curtis Joseph, Shayne Corson, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc? Hey, I'm not saying fans of other teams don't do this. However, the zeal with which Ottawa fans scapegoat individual players is nuts. They're like Red Sox fans or something. Ottawa sports radio is nothing more than a "PM" club (pissing and moaning). Admittedly, Montreal also seems to have a problem with this. I remember a story in the Montreal papers a few years ago where certain NHL players admitted they wouldn't want to play for the Habs --- since the fans' scrutiny in Montreal is so intense and irrational. However, unlike in Montreal, I think Ottawa fans are driven by denial. Rather than admit that the chips are stacked against the Sens (i.e. the economic structure of today's NHL), they prefer to live in their fantasy world where one or two players or coaches are dragging down the whole organization.
posted by molafson at 09:53 AM on April 23, 2004
Succa, did you like the way Alfredsson played in game 7, which should be the game your captain makes his mark? Says who? A captain is not a swooping guardian angel who pulls his team out of the muck with his superhuman strength. He's an exemplar of the team's competitive spirit, and a leader to the dressing room. Nothing more. Alfie is the best player on the team in all these regards. He's taught a lot to the younger players on the team and everyone around the league respects him, and his teammates look up to him. Nobody ever said a captain had to be a saviour. And hey, at least Ottawa's captain played in the big game ;-). Altogether too much has been made of Alfredsson's "guarantees". The media goaded him into every single one. What's he supposed to say when someone asks him "Is your team gonna win?" Is he going to answer "No, of course not. We're going to lose!" It was a media spectacle, nothing more. Though you could argue that he was simply trying to provide some of the swagger that Martin failed to instill. However, unlike in Montreal, I think Ottawa fans are driven by denial. Rather than admit that the chips are stacked against the Sens (i.e. the economic structure of today's NHL), they prefer to live in their fantasy world where one or two players or coaches are dragging down the whole organization. Fair enough, but wouldn't you agree that a President's Trophy winning team that is positively drenched in talent, with arguably the best defensive group in the league, should be going deeper into the playoffs? I don't see how economics comes into this. Ottawa is an elite team regardless of their payroll.
posted by Succa at 10:13 AM on April 23, 2004
And hey, at least Ottawa's captain played in the big game ;-). touche. though I guess we didn't need Sundin ; ) If you're comfortable with a leader who chokes when the chips are down, fine by me. I like the guy, respect him as a player, but he didn't even look 75% of the player he was 2 days prior during game 6. I'd like to credit that diminished play to the Leafs, but they can't take all the credit for his subpar performance in game 7. Ottawa is an elite team regardless of their payroll Agreed.
posted by garfield at 10:39 AM on April 23, 2004
Fair enough, but wouldn't you agree that a President's Trophy winning team that is positively drenched in talent, with arguably the best defensive group in the league, should be going deeper into the playoffs? I don't see how economics comes into this. Ottawa is an elite team regardless of their payroll. (a) As the cliche goes, playoff hockey is like a "second season" that has very little to do with the regular season. I'm no hockey analyst, but according to them, some teams are "tuned" for playoff hockey, while others aren't. (b) Having a team of skilled young players who can grind it out in the regular season is one thing. In the playoffs, where every game matters, you also need star players who can take control of a game and swing the outcome. (c) Using this page, I've calculated the average payrolls for teams in this year's playoffs. Of the teams that won in the first round, the average payroll is about $51.5 million US. Losing teams, $46 million. (I don't know whether that difference is statistically significant... It would be interesting to see a longitudinal analysis.) Also: those payrolls seem to be taken from before the trade deadline, so they don't indicate which teams picked up some big guns for the playoffs, right?
posted by molafson at 11:37 AM on April 23, 2004
I should also have asked whether Canadian teams are significantly disadvantaged by the exchange rate, higher income taxes on players' salaries, and fewer hand-outs on things like stadiums. I know various allowances are made for these differences, but they seem less than effective.
posted by molafson at 11:41 AM on April 23, 2004
he didn't even look 75% of the player he was 2 days prior during game 6 Alfredsson didn't look 75% of the player he was in Game 6, Lalime didn't look 75% of the goaltender he was in Game 6, the offence and defence didn't look 75% of what they did in Game 6. The team as a whole looked a lot worse overall. The entire team choked when the chips were down, not just the captain. Sure, Alfy didn't play the game of his life, but the location of the C wasn't the problem in that game.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 11:45 AM on April 23, 2004
fair nuf. just suggesting a change based on my observation of the series I thought would help improve your squad for the future.
posted by garfield at 01:16 PM on April 23, 2004
for what its worth, Quinn doesn't agree with the firing.
posted by garfield at 02:43 PM on April 23, 2004
Neither does John Tortorella...he had a profanity-laden tirade on the firing last night on HNIC. Can't find a link.
posted by Succa at 03:02 PM on April 23, 2004
Ottawa fans suck. They love to single someone out and blame everything on that guy. Boston is doin the same thing with Big Joe. Either the Herald or the Globe called him out during the Montreal series (can't find it right now), suggested he shouldn't be captain, even though the guy had two busted ribs. Hell, I nearly cried every time I coughed when my rib was messed up. Fans and the media are just like that, pretty much everywhere.
posted by Samsonov14 at 01:23 AM on April 24, 2004
Oh, it was Kevin Paul Dupont in the Globe. Here's his rationale for doing so, as posted on Hockeyfuture.com. Okay, back to the discussion of teams that still have a shot of the cup.
posted by Samsonov14 at 02:32 AM on April 24, 2004
It might be the right move, but it still sucks. Martin's a great guy and a solid coach. He won't be out of work for long. And he'll be doing commentary the rest of the playoffs too, in some language or other, I'd bet. (Also, Muckler's a dick. I'll never forgive him for blackballing Ted Nolan in Buffalo.)