12/21/24
March 18, 2004
Hooliganism Is Back, and It’s Better Than Ever.: Forest Gate Phil of West Ham United's Inter City Firm assures us that old-style hooliganism did not die out with the introduction of all-seater stadiums.
Are we reopening the debate about American vs. European violence? Just kidding but I still don't understand the whole organized hooliganism thing in England.
posted by billsaysthis at 09:45 AM on March 18, 2004
Some of what that chap says is most definitely true, although I think hooliganism these days involves only diehards rather than just about anybody who found themselves in the general vicinity as used to be the case. If you look at the pictures the first one shows West Ham apparently on the rampage at Birmingham. I was at that game, it was an FA cup game, and the West Ham fans quickly returned to whence they had came once a few Blues fans confronted them. The few that our winger, Robert Hopkins booted up the arse didn't hang around to debate the point either.
posted by Fat Buddha at 10:01 AM on March 18, 2004
I still don't understand the whole organized hooliganism thing in England. Billsaysthis, you should check out the book I mentioned. It is really a well-written story of a journalist, who immersed himself in with the diehard ManU supporters. It looks at mob mentality obviously, but the author also recalls his personal experiences as a writer who found himself suddenly in violent confrontations with police (in Italy and other places) and other supporters and his own amazement at how easily he became caught up in things. From the publisher's comments on the Powell bookstore site: "They have names like Barmy Bernie, Daft Donald, and Steamin' Sammy. They like lager (in huge quantities), the Queen, football clubs (especially Manchester United), and themselves. Their dislike encompasses the rest of the known universe, and England's soccer thugs express it in ways that range from mere vandalism to riots that terrorize entire cities. Now Bill Buford, editor of the prestigious journal Granta, enters this alternate society and records both its savageries and its sinister allure with the social imagination of a George Orwell and the raw personal engagement of a Hunter Thompson."
posted by scully at 10:49 AM on March 18, 2004
I second the recommendation of that book. I heard about it after Robert Duvall mentioned it in a radio interview. I think he was looking into it for purposes of a movie project but I don't know what ever became of that.
posted by gspm at 11:06 AM on March 18, 2004
posted by dng at 11:11 AM on March 18, 2004
Just kidding but I still don't understand the whole organized hooliganism thing in England. It's not just England. The Italian clubs have there hard core fascist supporters (the ultras) who are hardly pleasant, and the Ajax and Feyenoord fans have a wonderful habit of mass rampages. (I'm struggling to come up with any links though, maybe later). I'm sure most places in Europe have some wonderful hard core thugs following them about.
posted by dng at 11:16 AM on March 18, 2004
Thanks for the post, gspm. Very interesting (and a little frightening) read. I can't imagine having to deal with this at a pro game. And I'm definitely going to see if I can find that book, terrapin. Probably tonight.
posted by Ufez Jones at 02:16 PM on March 18, 2004
Anyone interested in the psychology of hooliganism (and/or football supporters in general) should consider reading Among the Thugs by Bill Buford. A friend of mine suggested it after he and I attended a Watford/Wolves match in December 2001, and I found it extremely interesting.