11/21/24
November 04, 2003
Hockey Update: After a blazing start to the season, some standouts are already ailing, including my favorite whipping boy, and one is about to start playing. Interesting to note, the WaterFowl of CA have established dominance in the circle, which should help them build upon last year's success. Also, it seems the universe is as one again, after a couple seasons with the road records surpassing home records. (it's early, but, it's hockey). And surprising to most, the Motor City Flying Spoked-Wheels look one Sergei short of a cup contender, even with the best goalie stable in the League. More importantly, fighting majors are on the rise, on and off the ice(courtesy hockey pundits).
Me spell good with word from keyboard typing.
posted by Samsonov14 at 01:39 PM on November 04, 2003
I'm just excited to have Gaborik back tonight, especially after the Wild have won three straight.
posted by emoeby at 01:45 PM on November 04, 2003
I like the big sprawling post style. Lots to talk about. The last link is especially worth reading. I find the CBA developments interesting, if for no other reason than as a public-relations disaster in the making. There has been nothing of substance from either side, not a single cogent argument of any issue from the mouths of Bettman or Goodenow. I'm counting on the journalists to crack this baby open. That piece is a haymaker to the League. While I don't side with the Union's position, their willingness to put the posturing aside and get down to business is laudable. I don't forsee such action coming from Bettman's camp. Let the preening continue. Here's another perspective on the dispute, asking "who needs a union anyway?" Also, grum sucks.
posted by Succa at 01:55 PM on November 04, 2003
I hear ya sammy, but hockey talk is limited around these parts, so I figured a central forum to discuss all that we want to would be better than individal posts....and most teams hit the 10-game mark this week, so stats became more meaningful....if that makes any sense whatsoever.
posted by garfield at 02:01 PM on November 04, 2003
(resisting urge to congratulate FHL progress....must not tempt the Fates) therev sucks for leaving, cause it looks like any team could win it all.
posted by garfield at 02:05 PM on November 04, 2003
That NYPost link on the CBA is incredible. I have no idea how much money "a five-percent giveback to the league on the full value of all existing contracts" represents, but that the players would offer it (among other things) seems like a generous step in the right direction. To reject it out-of-hand seems foolish. I really hope the comments by specific owners about being willing to sit out the season are exaggerations. Did they learn nothing from MLB? There's a league that demonstrated perfectly why stoppage is a terrible idea; they're still recovering (I suspect this year's awesome playoffs will help MLB a lot but the massive disparity in the league might counter that). NHL already is the smallest men's league in the US (okay, soccer's smaller but it doesn't have 30 teams). I suspect after a lockout people would walk away and rediscover minor league hockey if they still cared.
posted by kokaku at 02:46 PM on November 04, 2003
I've read all I could about the lockout, and I'm still not sure what's wrong. I hate to say it but I'm kind of on the side of The Management, but then again these are the same guys who shell out crazy dollars for Holik or Lapointe. I don't know, really. It just makes me sad. I'm almost wishing for an emoticon so I can change moods.
posted by Samsonov14 at 02:49 PM on November 04, 2003
I'm on the side of a negotiated solution that will ensure a 04-05 NHL season. Bettman has exploited his media prescence to influence fans into thinking the players are greedy, and the NHLPA has done a piss poor job of vilifying the owners in a similar fashion. Ok, so Bettman can piss farther (not further). Now can the posturing cease and the brass tacks commense? Thanks.
posted by garfield at 03:21 PM on November 04, 2003
Well I nominate Sammy for the NHL updates - I'm liekly cahnging jobs soon and can't possibly expect to have the same freedoms so my time may decrease. Helluva post Garf. Too much to talk about. Loving the fighting - hating the constant shutouts (especially those damned 15 shot ones) loving Kolvachuk and Hotlanta n' Tampa's success (they'll come back to earth). Hating how horrible my Leafs look - really impressed by how good Boston is looking - Surprised and equally happy with Colorado and Detroit having some trouble winning. Still see Ottawa as the team to beat. St. Louis is absolutely cursed. And Vancouver looks like the best moves were almost no moves. Giggy looks not just human, but less than human. I think I may have been really wrong about the Ducks - no other goalie seems to have been as adversely affected by the equipment regulations.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 03:30 PM on November 04, 2003
I nominate sammy, too....he puts words together all nice and stuff. I think Tampa might be for real this year...Atlanta will implode, just like Boston last year. And don't be too impressed with Boston, their goal differential is hovering around 0(28F/24A)....not a sign of a successful playoff team. That should come around, once Raycroft's play represents the majority of their starts. Yeah dude, I'm scared for the Leafs this year. And it's been so long that I don't know what they'll look like if Quinn leaves town.
posted by garfield at 03:43 PM on November 04, 2003
Second that Boston comment. Add to that one of the worst PKs and not so great PP and your looking at a team that's overplaying their skills. However, a strong start before reality sets in could set them up for a slow decline into the playoffs (see last season complete with probable first round elimination - ah the life of a B's fan). They do have rookie Bergeron who's impressively hot out of the gate so far. If only Joe would stop whining (even if he is right he's got to suck it up) and play smart. He's not captain material but how do you take it from him without killing his motivation and who would you give it to?
posted by kokaku at 04:24 PM on November 04, 2003
The B's will be in the sixth playoff spot this year. Joe should not be captain, but taking it away from him would be wrong. Bergeron is the real deal, and will be a 25-30 goal scorer for years to come.
posted by Samsonov14 at 05:12 PM on November 04, 2003
Yeah, the Leafs do look bad so far this year... but we've heard this tune before, and with an even worse start last year, they still managed to almost get 100 points. I'll hold judgement on them until the new year hits. Detroit. Detroit. What a world of hurt they're getting themselves into already. Hatcher's gone. They're forced to stick in their Number Three goalie, only to be shellacked by Vancouver. Now they've lost Zetterberg for a month! Yikes. I think bringing in Hasek has hurt them. I know all the goalies are being as professional about it as they can be, but you have to wonder about Legace. However, at the same time, I do kinda enjoy the karma befalling Cujo. I'll be surprised to see the Wings advance past the first round. It's early, but how about McLennan! With him playing like this, I think it would be in Calgary's best interest to not sign him (*cough*Turek*cough*)
posted by mkn at 06:46 PM on November 04, 2003
Oh, and as for rookies... it seems like a fresh batch this year. The competition for the Calder is going to be fierce. I like the little big-smile guy; my vote goes for Marc-Andre Fleury. Considering how lousy the Pens are and how tough a situation that must be for a rookie goaltender, he's been faring pretty damn well. Sure, Raycroft has been doing good in Boston, but he has a far better team in front of him. As far as skaters are concerned, Bergeron and King are pretty good, but I like Pitkanen's play more. Or maybe I just want to see a rookie D-man get some dues.
posted by mkn at 07:01 PM on November 04, 2003
Well, for my Oilers it looks like another season of more of the same. They play well - er - better aginst the good teams and stink it up against the weaker ones. Salo is occasionally steady but mostly not and Brewer no longer looks like the second coming of Larry Robinson, although the D still look (mostly) solid. Hemsky (he has real moves, he could be a big name, I think), Dvorak and York all need to be hot all the time, and we could really use steady production from Ryan Smith. Speaking of which, heaven forfend anyone named Smith (or Staios) should be injured. We have a kid named Bergeron, too, and he looks pretty good. Anyone catch that hit in the playoffs last year? Sure wish I could find a link... My prediction: 9th place, about 2 points back of eighth. Kill me now.
posted by alex_reno at 12:54 AM on November 05, 2003
FWIW, my roommate thinks the Oil will squeak into the playoffs.
posted by alex_reno at 01:23 AM on November 05, 2003
It probably deserves a front-pager, but Mark Messier did something special last night. I watched the game and while Messier's mark was certainly the highlight, the Rangers played one of their finest games in a while. They hustled, shot, played solid defense and weren't afraid to muck it up. They looked just like they did against the Avalanche, only this time for a full game rather than for the first 2 and a half periods. And damn was MSG going nutty. We fans just want something to root for. An effort will do, but a superb effort... Who knew? I miss Mike York. Marc-Andre Fleury looks outstanding, but that team in Pittsburgh is just flat out terrible. Detroit = The New New York Rangers. You can't by the Cup every year jackasses. Bergeron looks good, but let's let the kid play ten games (and maybe turn 19) before we load the pressure of prodigy on him. And for the Love of God, can we just let Joe be Captain. No, he is not Ray Borque. Ray Borque is gone. He went to Colorado and won a Cup. What more do you want from Thorton? He's a big dude and guys drape themselves on him all game long. In turn, he tugs once, a guy goes down and the whistle blows. He may be whining, but he's right. Joe Thorton is one of the top three players in the game. He's yet to punch a teammate or screw and underage hooker (on crack), so cut the dude some slack. He's 25. It's his seventh season. Enjoy them all. I'm going to start strangling refs soon. There is no consistency. None. It's brutal. A wink can get you two minutes one game and the next it would take an act of God to get them to call something. If I'm this frustrated, I imagine the players are too. (Perhaps I'm whining.) "Tampa's success (they'll come back to earth)" Ahhh, the prophetic Weedy. Nicely done.
posted by 86 at 07:50 AM on November 05, 2003
Succa, thanks for the link "Debating the actual levels of losses among hockey's owners, Moag said, is foolish" Sounds like mr.corporate lawyer is running a diversion. Hockey, of course, has a rich legacy of the betrayal of its heroes, see Eagleson, Allan. That history lesson should guarantee union solidarity and a correspondingly long march to mutual self-destruction. I'm not sure how many of you have seen the made-for-TV movie about the season when the NHLPA was formed, but for athletes that are the most emotionally invested (name any other sport where players play hurt, so often, and for so long, and I'll retract), they need to be sharing in the wealth and health of the league. I know the current owners aren't to blame, but they shoulder that legacy of betrayal. Guaranteed profits for owners and exploited players leads to NHLPA. NHLPA and greedy owners leads to over-paid players and owners losing money. This next transition should ensure both the players' and the owners' health, but that means the pot needs to be split, and not exchanged.
posted by garfield at 01:01 PM on November 05, 2003
This next transition should ensure both the players' and the owners' health, but that means the pot needs to be split, and not exchanged. Agreed but the apparent intentions of the owners fit well with my increasingly cynical world view, as does the thread today about ego-driven, rather than fairly earned, sports records. In other words, it's all about me, and nothing else matters. Makes it much more difficult to just enjoy being a spectator.
posted by billsaysthis at 01:28 PM on November 05, 2003
Makes it much more difficult to just enjoy being a spectator. Like watching spoiled brats argue over sharing their toys.
posted by garfield at 02:10 PM on November 05, 2003
86 - I watched some of the Leafs,Penguins game yesterday and Fluery is the real deal, but you are so right, Leafs won 4-2 but absolutely dominated. The score could have easily grown to 6 or 7 goals were it not for the best player on the ice - Fleury. Kid has got himself a glove hand that rivals Luongo's. Those wacky French-Canadians - thank you Patrick Roy!
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 03:39 PM on November 05, 2003
Garf old bean, you may want to center your posts around one or two topics. This is a roillercoaster. Unless, that is, you want to take over the NHL weekly update (which this would be a great example of). I'll do it again this year, but if you, Weedy, Grum, Qbert, Succa, or any of the other wants to do it, I'm cool with that. Let me know. I'll be unemployed soon, and will have a lot of time on my hands, so I'd be happy either way.