11/21/24
October 13, 2003
Sox tie it up: when the Yankees can't hit Tim Wakefield's knuckleball.
posted by kirkaracha to baseball at 11:01 PM - 36 comments
The rain delay of one day helps the Sox more than the Yanks, doncha think? And Mussina can't be faulted (too much) for holding Red Sox to 3 runs, but he hasn't won a postseason game in a long time now. Maybe Wells shoulda loaded up his liver and taken the mound instead.
posted by msacheson at 11:15 PM on October 13, 2003
Hey, I'm psyched the Sox won, but a little dissapointed that no old people got beat up.
posted by Samsonov14 at 12:08 AM on October 14, 2003
Wells, then Petitte, then the word series, sorry sox fans but you are getting the Yanks clutch pitchers in the next two games, and it's all over.
posted by jbou at 12:25 AM on October 14, 2003
Wakefield's knuckleball was pretty amazing...he just pushes it toward home plate and it seems like it doesn't even rotate once on the way home. The Sox were lucky to survive some exceptionally foolish baserunning mistakes. Boston Globe recap/New York Times recap
posted by kirkaracha at 12:31 AM on October 14, 2003
I'm always thrilled when Wakefield does well- there's something so wonderfully David & Goliath about a knuckleballer. He's been nails for them this post-season, and has been extremely valuable to the Sox over the years; his ability to put in a lot of innings if needed, and work in relief one day and start two days later, is a god send. What Kirkaracha said; baseballmusings.com has been noting the daily occurrence of the strike-em-out-throw-em-out rally killer that seems to be a Grady Little special these days. Grady, your team has some killer bats; don't start playing small ball and take those bats out of their hands! The Sox are incredibly lucky to be 2-2 with the way their bats are going, and that's due to Wakefield and the bullpen, almost exclusively. That said, and despite jbou's ramblings :) , I think the Sox are in the driver's seat knowing this is going back to NY no matter what- having Lowe in Fenway tomorrow is a big boost. If they can make the WS even without the bats waking up, the odds will finally pan out and they'll explode in a World Series appearance. But right now, they have to hope they can make it that far; tonight's win was huge, and something of a blow to a Yankees team that is sort of used to playing from ahead, and coasting. I'll be surprised if this doesn't go to a seventh game. Of course, the only thing that really matters is a Red Sox- Cubs World Series; everything after that is gravy. And tomorrow is going to be one huge day of baseball; the Sox or Yanks will take a huge game 5, and the Cubs will either go to the World Series or get forced to a demoralizing game 7.
posted by hincandenza at 12:35 AM on October 14, 2003
Wells, then Petitte, then the word series, sorry sox fans but you are getting the Yanks clutch pitchers in the next two games, and it's all over. Both good pitchers, both very beatable. I'm just hoping the redsox bats wake up. Seems they have to be due.
posted by justgary at 02:01 AM on October 14, 2003
It is like a game of Russian Roulette, to expect an offense that was this good to be this bad for so long; the usual problem is that when a mighty team goes quiet in the post-season, it doesn't survive long enough to come to life; the Sox have gotten chance after chance, and if you're Wells or Petitte, you never know when that powderkeg's gonna blow up in your face.
posted by hincandenza at 02:43 AM on October 14, 2003
The Sox were lucky to survive some exceptionally foolish baserunning mistakes. What mistakes? They seem to be doing exactly what Grady asks of them. Grady has yet to notice Bill Mueller isn't making solid contact in the post-season. Did Forrest Gump own up to the attempted double steal inning-ender too? 'Cause that was ugly. No matter how long you've been in baseball, I don't think it's a good idea to ask players to do something they haven't done all year.
posted by yerfatma at 06:01 AM on October 14, 2003
What's the problem with No-mah Gah-cee-ah-pah-aaaah? I haven't been following the Sox, and he looks terrible at the plate.
posted by rcade at 06:22 AM on October 14, 2003
We'd love to know, rcade. We'd love to know. He's been in a serious slump since September. He seems nervous at the plate, almost like he's trying to feel his way into a hit. Popup after popup.
posted by Bryant at 06:30 AM on October 14, 2003
nomar garciapopup.
posted by jerseygirl at 07:03 AM on October 14, 2003
nomar garciapopup. Goddamnit. Last time we had a good hitting shortstop it was "Johnny Popup". Kid's slumping and opening his front shoulder up (much like Valentin would do when he slumped). Coming into this year, Nomar was the All-Time Playoff OPS record holder. Law of averages is going to come down on you for that at some point.
posted by yerfatma at 07:11 AM on October 14, 2003
oh calm down, i like nomar.
posted by jerseygirl at 07:23 AM on October 14, 2003
Law of averages is going to come down on you for that at some point. Sure, but if he doesn't get out of this slump and the Yankees win the ALCS, he'll be No-More Garciaparra in Beantown.
posted by rcade at 07:27 AM on October 14, 2003
Sure, but if he doesn't get out of this slump and the Yankees win the ALCS, he'll be No-More Garciaparra in Beantown there will be a scant few that want to run him out of town, just like there are a scant few now who want to run pedro out of town. it varies from day to day, hour to hour, but the scant few always want to run someone out of town from this team. he's going through an ill-timed slump.
posted by jerseygirl at 07:31 AM on October 14, 2003
Wells, then Petitte, then the word series, sorry sox fans but you are getting the Yanks clutch pitchers in the next two games, and it's all over. The announcers pointed out last night that Derek Lowe was 11-2 at Fenway this year. I think it's a little presumptuous to state that the Yankees are a lock to win the series.
posted by Mike McD at 08:16 AM on October 14, 2003
My TV is going out the window if Little attempts one more 3-2 count steal with no outs to kill any chance of small ball run scoring. Maybe 3 times the charm will finally sink into his thick skull and he'll realize that IT DOES NOT WORK.
posted by kokaku at 08:20 AM on October 14, 2003
My TV is going out the window if Little attempts one more 3-2 count steal with no outs to kill any chance of small ball run scoring. you and me both. it's driving me insane.
posted by jerseygirl at 09:12 AM on October 14, 2003
One of the most remarkable things about last night's game was Matsui's play on the ball off the monster. Faking a runner out by pretending the ball was catchable, then letting it bounce in front of him over his head, catching it on that hop, and tossing it in to prevent a run from scoring -- pulling that off as a visitor to Fenway is incredible.
posted by rcade at 09:45 AM on October 14, 2003
Kokaku, he usually learns in two. Like the two times he double intentionally walked Yankees to load the bases and lost both games. Hasn't tried that one again. JBou, Wells sucks at Fenway and the Sox light him up all the time, and Lowe is good there, so I wouldn't be too worried. I'm a little scared, I think that it would be wise of the Sox to mov Pedro to game 6 if they can close it out then, and if it goes to 7, hell, wakefield's arm isn't tired. and obviously the Yankees can't touch him, even though everyone else can. Wake wasn't nearly as on as he was the other night, Yankees had plenty of opportunities but as usual can't get a hit with runners on. It disgusts me. They had a golden opportunity to put this away and now they are at a decided disadvantage. I did have to laugh though because right before the home run pitch to Sierra I was grumbling about why he was in and how bad his one armed swings had been, and told my roommate "I don't even remember the last time I saw him do anything other than strike out." (actually I do, it was that St. Louis game at the stadium.) Soriano should be run out of town. I'm fucking sick of him. You don't even need to throw him strikes to strike him out.
posted by Bernreuther at 09:53 AM on October 14, 2003
Rogers, at first I thought asskisser McCarver was just making that up but you could see that he took his look at the runner and was just standing there waiting to turn around. It's too bad it didn't result in an out, now that would have made it all the more outstanding. He's not the most gifted player, but he plays smartly. His arm is not strong but he has a quick infielder release to make up for it. I actually thought he was better in center than Bernie. Aside from that stretch on the west coast swing (errors and poor plays in Oakland) he has been really solid defensively all year.
posted by Bernreuther at 10:02 AM on October 14, 2003
I don't think Matsui ever fully turned around -- he let the ball hit the wall, hit behind him and bounce over him, then caught it in front of him. If the runner had not scored on a fielder's choice, the game would've gone to extra innings because of Matsui's play.
posted by rcade at 10:08 AM on October 14, 2003
the bullshit that the media will have you believe is that the yankees are patient at the plate and wait to hit a 3 run homer. while the homer part maybe right, anybody who has watched the yankees this post season will tell you: most of the lineup is swinging at garbage out of the zone. granted wakefield is more the exception not the rule but there were at least 4-5 times late in the game last night where the batter was swinging at the first pitch when the yanks were behind. the least they could do is let a couple balls get to the catchers mit and maybe draw a walk. soriano is the worst lead off hitter i've ever seen. he swings at everything.
posted by oliver_crunk at 10:12 AM on October 14, 2003
Bernreuther, I think Pedro in game 6 would be a bad move for the Sox, except maybe in desperation. He will be somewhat unrested, on 4 days rest to be sure but with the way he's been pitching, it's clear he's hitting fumes at this point in the season. To be effective, his next start if possible should be on 5 days rest (or more). Ideally, the Sox can save him for a game 7, where he'd be on 5 days rest, and if things go extremely well (i.e., Lowe wins tomorrow) they might even hope to beat the Yankees without using Pedro (but that's getting ahead of ourselves- those bats need to wake up against Wells and get game 5 won). Pedro starting game 7 is still not a sure thing, so best avoided unless necessary; Pedro starting a game 1 with that little bit more rest would probably be the Pedro of old, tossing an unhittable masterpiece. Heck, right now I don't know that I wouldn't start Wakefield in a game 7, with Pedro waiting to relieve if things start to fall apart, but otherwise saved to be a better rested WS start if it comes to that. The only drawback is the Hell Boston fans would rain down on Grady if the Sox lost that game and he didn't start Pedro. Do you think Wakefield bothers to put on that huge ice sleeve after a start that most pitchers do? :) He only went 7+ last night because Grady (wisely) yanked him the second that first baserunner was on. I suspect that even at this time of the year, Wakefield could make a game 7 start on three days' rest with a full tank, because throwing 100 pitches at 70mph just isn't going to wear a guy out that much. Bernreuther: Soriano is a bad-ball hitter, not unlike Garcia"popup". The difference is that despite both being first-pitch swingers who hack at (with quite a bit of success) some bad pitches, Garciaparra still has a better eye and plate discipline- and has been in the league a while longer. Were I a Yankees fan, I'd not give up on Soriano just yet- but the Yankees do need to try to give the kid some forceful lessons on taking a pitch. As you noticed (as everyone watching noticed!) not one of those Williamson pitches were in the strike zone.
posted by hincandenza at 10:21 AM on October 14, 2003
Totally forgot about Matsui's play. That's a hell of a play by the regular Sox left fielder. To have a visitor do that in his first season was amazing. Thing is, that's not the only good play he's made at the Monster this year. I just want to know if he refers to it as the Green Monster or Gojira. If you run Soriano out of town, please point him North. I know he's frustrating: last night I was trying to rework the lyrics to an old Dead Milkmen tune for him, but I didn't get past "You'll swing at anything." We'll take him. Kid's dangerous.
posted by yerfatma at 10:51 AM on October 14, 2003
I am stunned ... stunned that no one's talking about the possible Pedro/Clemens rematch in a game seven. Who doesn't want to see that. There's drama, high drama, and then there's what a Pedro/Clemens game 7 would be. Considering what went down in game 3 I think the whole country would watch that game.
posted by Mike McD at 11:24 AM on October 14, 2003
oh, I was talking about how cool it would be in the last thread about wakefield. It'd pretty much be the greatest day in Sox history if they took out Clemens in game 7 and advanced. Which is why I don't want to see it :)
posted by Bernreuther at 11:35 AM on October 14, 2003
SpoFi: Working the Dead Milkmen into your daily sporting life.
posted by wfrazerjr at 12:07 PM on October 14, 2003
Another Pedro/Clemens matchup? Yep, that'd be another incredible game. But I'm hanging on for W's by Lowe and Burkett to avoid a situation that would probably cause my heart to seize up a least a dozen more times than could possibly be healthy.
posted by kokaku at 02:54 PM on October 14, 2003
OK - fine, but if the Sox lose game 5 - then what? Pedro on short rest or (gasp) John Burkett? Give 'em Wakefield again with Burkett ready in the pen, I say. Throw that dancing crap-ball until they prove they can hit it.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 03:13 PM on October 14, 2003
if it rains out tomorrow, you have to go with pedro in 6 and wake in 7 and use burkett for long relief. if no rain, then burkett goes and if you need to go to the pen early, you have arroyo, suppan and wake.
posted by jerseygirl at 03:22 PM on October 14, 2003
keep dreaming about rain.......... Detailed Local Forecast For Bronx, NY Tonight: Gusty winds and showers in the evening. Heavy thunderstorms overnight. Low near 60F. Winds SSE at 25 to 35 mph. Chance of rain 80%. Rainfall may reach one inch. Winds could occasionally gust over 50 mph. Tomorrow: Variable cloudiness and windy. High 67F. Winds W at 25 to 35 mph. Tomorrow night: Mostly clear skies with gusty winds. Low 48F. Winds W at 25 to 35 mph. Thursday: Windy with times of sun and clouds. Highs in the low 60s and lows in the low 50s.
posted by jbou at 04:42 PM on October 14, 2003
Wussy baseball players, other sports play in rain and worse.
posted by billsaysthis at 05:20 PM on October 14, 2003
Wells was money, the Yankees defense was great, and they got just enough runs off of a good pitcher to win. I just can't see the Sox actually starting Burkett tomorrow.
posted by jbou at 06:32 PM on October 14, 2003
sigh.
posted by Samsonov14 at 06:47 PM on October 14, 2003
it was nice to get back to just baseball. i'm so impressed with walker and wake's great. if we win tomorrow, look for him coming out of the pen in game 6 or 7.