11/05/24
June 25, 2003
Time for another ACC-Big East thread. ACC votes to add Miami and Virginia Tech only. Sort of a shock. Now... my thinking is that VT can decline this and return to a Big East without being labelled a traitor, and adding Louisville keeps the Big East in good shape, and actually improves the basketball. But losing the top 2 football dogs could be the end. Hopefully the drama will unfold in the next 2 days.
posted by Bernreuther to football at 12:22 AM - 19 comments
I don't think it will stay at 11, there is no way, there is just too much money in having 12. My guess is that VT will decline the invitation, and 'Cuse and BC will be extended invitations.
posted by corpse at 07:40 AM on June 25, 2003
Note that USA Today is speculating that in the interests of stability the NCAA may lower the bar for a title game to ten teams. Still don't think 11 makes much sense, but it does remove much of the impetus for 12.
posted by tieguy at 07:42 AM on June 25, 2003
Oh, and K, as usual, says it better and more honestly than most: "We have to be sensitive to our brethren in other conferences. This isn't about big business, swooping in and getting another company. If it is, then the hidden cost (of expansion) is the destruction of what, in essence, intercollegiate athletics is."
posted by tieguy at 07:44 AM on June 25, 2003
Would Miami even accept such an offer? I think Donna Shalala is very close with the president (or someone higher up) at Syracuse, and Miami has a strong alumni base in the Northeast (which is a major reason why BC was included in the original plan). If geography is the true driving force behind this (not money, as the ACC has untruthfully claimed), the ACC should add Miami and Central Florida, while the Big East should absorb Maryland and Virginia, and maybe att Louisville or (if strong football is the key) East Carolina. imagine...Georgetown and Maryland in the same basketball conference...)
posted by arco at 08:31 AM on June 25, 2003
I don't see Miami turning down the offer, and despite Va Tech's participation in the lawsuit against the ACC, BC, and Miami, I think they'd be crazy to turn it down as well. I think you'll see a lot of pressure on the NCAA from the non-12 team conferences now to drop the (arbitrary) number from 12 for the championship game. There is talk of now pursuing schools like Penn State, Pitt, ND, WVU, etc. but I think that the need to remain geographically closely knit has been underestimated. Going to 12 would be inevitable if the NCAA is unwilling to negotiate on the minimum number. Personally I'm somewhat happy with the outcome. My preferences would be like this 1. Stay at 9 2. Add Miami only 3. Add Miami, Va Tech, and either BC or Syracuse 4. Add Miami, BC, and Syracuse 5. Add all four. This outcome seems to fall somewhere between 2 and 3.
posted by mbd1 at 10:08 AM on June 25, 2003
I never saw the point of having Miami in the Big East, but I think the Big East is a hoops conference, and anything that takes away from that is a mistake. I also think that college football is not something that is that big a deal in the places where the Big East schools play. Just about the only New York State college football program anybody cares about is Syracuse; BC's football has its fans, but none of the other schools in the conference have any sort of real tradition that I've noticed.
posted by outside counsel at 10:43 AM on June 25, 2003
Counsel, Columbia is an Ivy football power and all of NYC bows down to them!
posted by billsaysthis at 11:23 AM on June 25, 2003
This just doesn't seem to be working out well for the ACC, the Big East might be laughing all the way when none of this works out. There is no point in Miami going if they cannot get a title game, they get harder conference games and less of a shot at a BCS game, plus it is suicide on their pathetic hoops team. They need to bring some buddies or they'll be worse off. At the moment I'd say the Big East is winning this battle, even if it only loses one team.
posted by ITLinebacker at 11:23 AM on June 25, 2003
This particular turn of events seems very odd to me. What advantage is there to the ACC of having 11? Either they will get the championsip game requirement lowered to 10 or not, but 11 just leaves one more mouth to feed or one too few. Unbalanced divisions and one dancer left without a partner.
posted by billsaysthis at 11:28 AM on June 25, 2003
Miami and the ACC just screwed up--there's no way around it. They underestimated the ACC traditionalists (Duke and Carolina) and the way they would continue to oppose expansion outside the ACC's area. They thought they needed a Northeastern presence but nobody in the Northeast cares about college football. They invited the wrong Big East schools--VTech is a better for the ACC. Their plan was dumb from the start and--I'm not saying it was bound to fall through, but I'm glad it did because it made noooo sense. So hopefully the ACC will take only Miami and end up going after ECU and South Carolina--you know, other Southern schools that play football. The Big East tells Temple all is forgiven, invites Louisville, Marquette, Xavier and the muthafreaking Marshall THUNDERING HERD! and--bang--you got your twelve-team football league and your bloated miniature NBA. Yep.
posted by Justin Slotman at 11:43 AM on June 25, 2003
I wonder if the Big East would still be in a position to retain a BCS berth if only Miami left. That largely depends, I guess, on how well the "other" teams play in the next couple of years. If VaTech makes another run at the national title (and they could very well do it this year), and if Pitt, WVU and BC play competitively in non-conference games (again, all poised for good seasons), they could make a case. That is, IF only Miami leaves, and quite frankly even if this whole ACC thing falls through I'm not sure how long Miami will be welcome in the Big East. Justin--Marshall needs to upgrade its basketball program big-time (facilities, players, etc) before making a serious case for joining the Big East. Though, we'd finally get a regular WVU-Marshall football series out of it...
posted by arco at 01:06 PM on June 25, 2003
ARCO: Marshall needs to upgrade its basketball program big-time (facilities, players, etc) before making a serious case for joining the Big East. Though, we'd finally get a regular WVU-Marshall football series out of it... JS: If the Big East can let in Rutgers, they can let in anybody.
posted by Justin Slotman at 02:49 PM on June 25, 2003
If the Big East can let in Rutgers, they can let in anybody. True. * * * * * * Hmmm, Frank Beamer didn't start having chest pains until this ACC stuff started.... Take that as a hint, Frank.
posted by arco at 02:59 PM on June 25, 2003
posted by mbd1 at 03:51 PM on June 25, 2003
As a UVa alumnus, I am extremely saddened to have those stinking, rotten, inbred Hokies join our proud and noble conference--the conference of Thomas Jefferson. Pfooey.
posted by LionIndex at 03:56 PM on June 25, 2003
Even if it does mean our lousy basketball team gets two more automatic conference wins.
posted by LionIndex at 03:58 PM on June 25, 2003
I wonder what the over/under is on the filing date for the CUSA and State of Kentucky's lawsuit against the Big East for poaching Louisville?
posted by kloeprich at 06:57 PM on June 25, 2003
Interesting counterproposal details coming out - Big East and CUSA shuffling a bit to create a giant alliance with a 12 team all sports league and a 10 team basketball only league. Under joint control. A listing of teams. I'd hate to lose the basketball rivalries with Georgetown, St Johns, etc, but this would be a nice counterstrike, especially if they poached Florida State. :)
posted by Bernreuther at 01:42 PM on June 27, 2003
Well... it doesn't make much sense (where is #12 for the football title game?) but it makes more sense than some of the other proposals bandied about. The big thing (from an ACC traditionalist's perspective) is that every team being added already has a strong, natural, traditional rivalry with teams already in the conference. Adding BC and Syracuse was a 100% purely business move- adding VT and UM makes sense for reasons beyond the BCS and TV contracts. Now, if only we could get UF to join up...