11/05/24
December 06, 2010
Hatred for the Adrian Gonzalez trade: It's been painfully obvious for months, maybe years, that Gonzalez was never going to sign a contract extension with the Padres. It was inevitable that he would become a free agent, become extremely rich and play for one of ESPN's favorite teams. It was never in doubt.
If you want some good hate, check out the tweets to @John_W_Henry during the five or so hours where it looked like the Adrian Gonzalez trade was not going to go through. Here are some examples.
posted by Jugwine at 09:50 AM on December 06, 2010
As a Sox fan, I find it hard to generate much hate for the trade, frankly. I did like the line about "the only thing [the prospects] will be hitting in 2011 is puberty." Also, giving up prospects is not "nothing" for the Red Sox. While they don't need to build their club through prospects, they do need to have a stable of them to use in trades (like this one) to bring them the big name talent. Every prospect dealt away depletes their flexibility.
posted by Rock Steady at 09:53 AM on December 06, 2010
It seems to me the SBNation blog network delivers an audience their average blogger does not deserve. He doesn't like that his team "gave up on the 2011 season"? How would he like it a year from now when the Padres didn't make the playoffs with Gonzalez and Gonzalez walks leaving the Padres with two first round picks? At least the prospects they got have real potential and could contribute by 2012. If he wants to be mad at the organization, be mad they waited so long Gonzalez's value dropped significantly. If they'd made this trade a year ago, they could have gotten a much larger haul.
"I hate that this trade didn't address any of the Padres current needs. That's really hard to do too, because they have a lot of needs."
A. Duh.
"It won't be until 2014 or 2015,before they are expected to graduate to the Major Leagues."
Way to do your homework. Casey Kelly was in spring training with the major league club and there was talk about bringing him up last year. He could probably contribute to their bullpen. Rizzo's progress was slowed by cancer, but I'd be surprised if he's not in the majors by 2012. If only there was someplace this poor blogger could have gotten information on Red Sox prospects.
posted by yerfatma at 10:10 AM on December 06, 2010
I'm surprised they didn't at least try and get one above average current player in the trade. Not saying it would be smart. But if you're trying to keep the fan base happy, again, not saying that's smart, then 2 prospects plus one player contributing day one would probably be better received.
I hate that this trade helped the Boston Red Sox a team that inspires an irrational hatred in me.
Then write when you can think clearly.
posted by justgary at 02:48 PM on December 06, 2010
Those who have looked closely at the Boston minor league system know that all 3 are legitimate prospects who, if they avoid injury and receive the proper coaching, will become solid major league players. Boston was able to trade them because the alternatives were already in place. Rizzo is a 1st baseman. Now that you have Gonzalez, who needs another one? Fuentes is a good-looking SS, but the Red Sox have Iglesias being groomed to play the position full-time in 2012. There are 2 RHPs in the system who are both older than Kelly and despite having come into the system later may be closer to the majors. Why they were not sought by the Padres is that they have not had much exposure in the minors.
Just to make the BoSox haters a little more livid, this little note will suffice.
In his introductory presser this AM, Gonzalez mentioned another left-handed batter from San Diego who had played for Boston. I remember him, and he wasn't too bad. Fellow by the name of Williams, who wore number 9.
posted by Howard_T at 03:35 PM on December 06, 2010
I know this is an oversimplification of the situation, but...
When I google "San Diego population", I get a figure of 3 million something. When I google "Boston population", I get a figure of 589,141.
The argument is that the Red Sox are throwing their money around. Well, they are. But why, with a population 20% that of San Diego, should they be able to do so much better on the money front than San Diego? I know it's more complicated than that, but the money comes ultimately from the fans -- don't 3 million people count for anything? And if not, why not, and whose fault is that?
I know there are the intangibles. I know the Red Sox have been around since the earth cooled, I know they've had generations to build up fan loyalty. But offsetting that, you've got other teams with very tangible advantages. You've got all that sun belt population, and you've got that sun belt weather, for god's sake. People bring fleece jackets to Fenway in June. If you can't get people to come out to a ballpark when you know it's going to be sunny and 75 degrees, just exactly who or what is to blame for that, and what insanity would make things "fair"?
Crazy talk.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 03:37 PM on December 06, 2010
The greater Boston area comprises 4.5 million people. Its TV market is the seventh in the country, compared to San Diego at 27.
posted by rcade at 04:00 PM on December 06, 2010
rcade, you are not smarter than google.
Seriously, if you want to go there, compare "the greater Boston area" -- which includes everything from southern New Hampshire to Providence RI -- to "the greater San Diego area", and I'm sure we're right back where I started. What exactly is San Diego's disadvantage supposed to be based on? Keep moving the goalposts, but I doubt you'll find anything that justifies calling for the waaaahmbulance for San Diego.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 04:15 PM on December 06, 2010
rcade, you are not smarter than google.
Way to keep it friendly. Pretending like you're seriously interested in a discussion, the easiest comparison would be: how many households does NESN reach vs. the San Diego Padres broadcast partner? You can get NESN on satellite, on some cable systems in Canada, etc. You can't bitch about the phrase "Red Sox Nation" and pretend all of the fans live within shouting distance of the pahk or the Charles.
posted by yerfatma at 04:28 PM on December 06, 2010
Also, this feels like an attempt to defend the Yankees spending by proxy as you were mentioning in another thread today. The Red Sox are a large-market team and their fanbase is lucky to have them. But even at #2 in spending. they're still only 78% of the payroll of the Yankees.
posted by yerfatma at 04:32 PM on December 06, 2010
The greater San Diego area includes Tijuana.
posted by Hugh Janus at 04:52 PM on December 06, 2010
rcade:
Way to keep it friendly.
My god. Do I really have to festoon it with smileys for you to get that it's a joke? I guess I do if you're that touchy.
Pretending like you're seriously interested in a discussion
Way to keep it friendly, rcade. It was friendly until you got pissy. Pot, kettle, black.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 05:15 PM on December 06, 2010
The greater San Diego area includes Tijuana.
Where, incidentally, Adrian Gonzalez grew up.
On the population point, the "greater San Diego area" quickly bleeds into Angels and Dodgers territory. The Red Sox basically have Connecticut (at least parts of it) on up to themselves. So I think the advantage for the Red Sox is real, based on the unique aspects of New England.
posted by holden at 05:24 PM on December 06, 2010
Those who have looked closely at the Boston minor league system know that all 3 are legitimate prospects who, if they avoid injury and receive the proper coaching, will become solid major league players.
Avoid injury, receive proper coaching, and can cut it in the majors. History is littered with can't miss prospects that not only missed becoming stars, they never made it at all.
I have no idea if there's been any study on the topic, but it seems to me baseball is much more of a crap shoot when it comes to predicting future success than other sports. Many players that are fine at the minor league level simply can't cut it at the major league level.
I'm not saying these aren't great prospects, they are. But all the padres can do is play the percentages; the odds that these three will make it. But there's no guarantee that they will, and there's certainly no guarantee they'll be stars.
posted by justgary at 07:30 PM on December 06, 2010
Yes, it sucks for all the reasons that are expressed here, but I have to hand it to the Red Sox for being able to fashion a deal like this without depleting their system. The short term deals for Beltre and Martinez - getting them when they did, gives them more picks as compensation when they sign elsewhere and they have another 5 picks this draft in the top 50. That's thinking ahead.
However, I don't think it's such an astonishing move that the Sox immediately leap above the Yankees and Rays (and my Jays aren't too far behind neither. And they might get Grienke).
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 07:34 PM on December 06, 2010
My god. Do I really have to festoon it with smileys for you to get that it's a joke? I guess I do if you're that touchy.
DO I REALLY NEED TO CALL OUT MY OWN NAME FOR YOU TO RESPECT ME? I GUESS I DO IF YOU'RE BLIND!
Also: ;) :) etc.
posted by yerfatma at 08:14 PM on December 06, 2010
I don't know why you are calling Yerfatma "rcade," LBB, but it's not nice to insult him like that.
What exactly is San Diego's disadvantage supposed to be based on?
TV. I'm not going to dig up the TV deals, but I imagine that Boston playing in the seventh-biggest TV market -- and being in one of the cities the national sports media loves the most -- provides a considerable financial advantage over San Diego playing in the 27th.
If you want to argue that the Red Sox earned some of their advantage by establishing a storied, beloved franchise, I will agree. But to suggest there might be no advantage at all for Boston vs. San Diego seems to be blind to reality.
posted by rcade at 08:49 PM on December 06, 2010
But to suggest there might be no advantage at all for Boston vs. San Diego seems to be blind to reality.
You must be new here.
posted by yerfatma at 10:05 PM on December 06, 2010
Seriously, if you want to go there, compare "the greater Boston area" -- which includes everything from southern New Hampshire to Providence RI -- to "the greater San Diego area", and I'm sure we're right back where I started.
Well, no. The actual CITY of San Diego is just over 1 million. The 3 million figure you got is the metro area (basically SD County). And we're then hemmed in by LA/OC to the north (competing markets), ocean to the west, wasteland to the east until you get to another competing market, and Mexico to the south. Tijuana could be considered within SD's area of influence, but I don't think the Padres get a whole lot of support from down there.
posted by LionIndex at 10:09 PM on December 06, 2010
Guy writing the linked article needs to find a new team to root for - all the reasons he lists for hating the trade are basically inherent characteristics of the Padres franchise.
posted by LionIndex at 10:13 PM on December 06, 2010
Scott Miller, CBS Sports:
While Gonzalez was in Boston for his physical examination over the weekend, he was at dinner Friday night with some Red Sox executives when, from across the restaurant, came a familiar face to greet him.
It just so happened that Sox outfielder Jacoby Ellsbury was having dinner in the same restaurant.
Ellsbury approached the Red Sox table and congratulated Gonzalez on coming to Boston.
Without missing a beat, Gonzalez smiled, accepted the congratulations -- and then congratulated Ellsbury.
"And my place is going to be open, so if you need a place to stay in San Diego, let me know," Gonzalez deadpanned to Ellsbury.
According to a Padres executive, who had been briefed by their Red Sox counterparts, Ellsbury momentarily froze ... before he was assured that no, he was not headed west to San Diego as part of the trade.
Everyone was said to have gotten a big laugh -- including Ellsbury.
At various points in their discussions, the Red Sox and Padres talked about including Ellsbury in the deal. They also discussed Felix Doubront and Jed Lowrie, but the Padres wanted talented players without so much service time.
posted by justgary at 01:16 AM on December 07, 2010
What exactly is San Diego's disadvantage supposed to be based on?
TV. I'm not going to dig up the TV deals, but I imagine that Boston playing in the seventh-biggest TV market -- and being in one of the cities the national sports media loves the most -- provides a considerable financial advantage over San Diego playing in the 27th.
If you want to argue that the Red Sox earned some of their advantage by establishing a storied, beloved franchise, I will agree. But to suggest there might be no advantage at all for Boston vs. San Diego seems to be blind to reality.
There's been the perception, even here in San Diego, that Adrian would be much, much more famous if he wasn't in a place where he started games at the time that a lot of east coasters go to bed. So, it might not just be the size of the market, but also that the east coast teams generally have a much better media presence in general, just from when they play. I remember getting the paper when I went to school in VA, looking for Padre scores, and the game would have ended too late for them to get anything in about it.
posted by LionIndex at 02:01 AM on December 07, 2010
Keep your heads up, San Diego. True, you didn't receive any players really ready to play at the major league level yet, and some (or all) may not. It's a gamble, but there's no way you could afford the money Boston is going to have to heap on Gonzalez to get him his extension. And the guy's a first baseman. If there's one talent-rich position in baseball, it's first base. You will find another decent first baseman to hopefully build around.