04/26/24
April 16, 2003
Kansas Gets Permission to Talk to Self: Losing the national title game apparently caused serious mental health issues for the Jayhawks! Bada boom! (Okay, bad pun, NYT link, but I couldn't resist when I saw this one.)
posted by billsaysthis to basketball at 01:39 PM - 8 comments
You know, I never liked Self much when he was at Tulsa (or Oral Roberts for that matter) but he's a pretty damn good coach. I'd like to see him in the Big XII. He's just another in a long line of coaches to pass through Tulsa on their way to bigger and better programs (Tubby Smith and Nolan Richardson, just to namedrop a couple). It would be a lateral move (or maybe even a bit of step down with Kansas losing some big players) but I don't know if he'd want to consider moving nearer to his old stomping grounds.
posted by Ufez Jones at 01:57 PM on April 16, 2003
Illinois to Kansas is a lateral move? Being from the area, I can tell you that even U of I fans would admit that their program doesn't have the luster of Kansas. The Illini don't draw prospects consistently from around the country. Shoot, they even have trouble landing them from their own state. Chicago prospects routinely snub U of I. I think, if you're really talking about coaching at a Top 5, NCAA-title-hopes-every-year type school, that's not Illinois.
posted by wfrazerjr at 02:01 PM on April 16, 2003
I agree wfrazerjr that it's not quite a lateral move, but back in the Lou-Do days the Illini fielded some nasty teams. Plus Illinoisians (word?) are just as passionate about their hoops as Jayhawks. The right coach at Illinois can return them to A-list prominence, while at Kansas there's only one way to go, and that's down.
posted by vito90 at 02:53 PM on April 16, 2003
The Illini were ranked in the top ten for most if not all of this past season. If they hadn't had so many injuries and gotten more practice playing together as a whole team, they likely would've performed better in the NCAA tourney. It's not like Self is coaching Wyoming or something. Granted, Kansas has more mystique, but there's also much more pressure to finally win another championship (something Williams failed to accomplish IIRC). To be the coach that has two choices like this to choose from, pretty big step up from coaching in the NAIA ten years ago.
posted by Ufez Jones at 03:48 PM on April 16, 2003
I'll strongly third wfraze, there's no way this is a lateral move: Kansas is a top five coaching seat. Period. Illinois is a very good program, but there have been a lot of years when 22-10 and a second round tourney exit was regarded with a shrug outside Champaign-Urbana. I also agree with Vito that Self has to win big to keep the Kansas faithful happy - there's very little room for error here - but he's pretty well proven himSelf (sorry) and of the possible candidates he's by far the best.
posted by kloeprich at 12:58 PM on April 17, 2003
I think going to Kansas would be a bad move for Self, and I don't say that just because I'm a huge Illinois fan. I'll basically repeat what some very knowledgeable pundits have said. If Self stays at Illinois, he has the potential to be a god here. There's a fertile area nearby (Chicago) to get all the talent he needs to win a national championship. IIRC, Kansas has only gotten ~4 recruits from Kansas in the last 50 or so years. Self has much less pressure at Illinois. I believe we're on the cusp of greatness if he stays. Stay 20 years, win a bunch of Big 10 championships, make a few deep runs in the tourney to the final 4. People will worship him forever. Meanwhile, if he isn't immediately going to the Final 4 and winning championships, they're going to get on him in Kansas, even if he's very successful. There's also the Oklahoma St. thing. Self can stay at Illinois for a few more years, do some great thing, then leave the program in great hands and succeed Eddie Sutton at OSU. Meanwhile, if he goes to KU, I really don't see them giving him an out-clause to coach at OSU, especially since they're in the same conference. It's almost nearly impossible to switch teams in the same conference. For the above reasons, I think he would be much better off at Illinois, and boy do I hope he stays.
posted by gyc at 09:51 PM on April 17, 2003
All this talk of what Illinois might do is just that — might. Self has the opportunity to move from a solid program to one of the crown jewel jobs in all of college sports. Unless he's afraid of failing (and I highly doubt that), why would he turn that down? Williams has only gotten four recruits from Kansas because, let's face it — there just aren't that many good recruits from Kansas. The state is not a hotbed for big-time prospects, simply because of size and only one relatively large city. Chicago is on a completely different level. It's like having Kansas compressed into one county. U of I has struggled there because 1) no long tournament runs 2) little nationwide TV exposure 3) Champaign-Urbana and central Illinois, while I love it, is not exactly the most happening place around. Chicago kids have no desire to hang out in what they view as a cow town. Anyone who can break through that and get the pipeline flowing from Chitown to C-U will win and win big. Vito: We're Illinoisans, I believe, and yes, Lou had some good programs. But trust me on this — Illinois got labeled as a choking-assed team, especially around the state, because Henson couldn't coach his way out of a wet paper bag. I can count on one finger the number of times I saw the Illini make a halftime adjustment to beat a Bobby Knight or Gene Keady team. I would argue that the Fightin' Illini have NEVER been A-list material, even in '88. We've been B+ at best, and that doesn't get the Chicago kids to go to farm country for four years. Self COULD be a god in Illinois if he won the Big Dance. That's a big, fat could sitting there ... and every coach wants to win it all. Who has the better players, where's he more likely to leave a lasting mark, and what would seal him in the annals of coaching as one of the best? Kansas, and that's why he'll go.
posted by wfrazerjr at 01:11 PM on April 18, 2003
I really don't think Self is going to go, unless he gets the offer of a lifetime. Illinois to Kansas would be a lateral move, unless the money does the talking.