11/05/24
November 17, 2009
Zack Greinke Wins American League Cy Young: overcoming both social anxiety disorder and only 16 wins.
Even with my bias (KC fan), statistically i don't see anyway he shouldn't have won this. A nice reward for Greinke, persevering through all his issues, & finally something to be proud of as a Royals fan.
posted by brainofdtrain at 08:45 AM on November 18, 2009
Really, really glad to see Greinke win. Guy totally deserves it.
posted by MKUltra at 09:08 AM on November 18, 2009
Greinke was very good this year but I wouldn't go as far as to say that he "deserved" it since there are a few other pitchers that "deserved" to win as well, IMO.
Nonetheless, congrats on a fine season sir!
posted by BornIcon at 09:57 AM on November 18, 2009
I wouldn't go as far as to say that he "deserved" it since there are a few other pitchers that "deserved" to win as well, IMO.
I think we'd all love to hear who those pitchers were that had better seasons than Greinke. Otherwise that's just another of your "Could mean anything" statements. That was the 31st best pitching season of all-time. The next best season on that list from 2009 belongs to Chris Carpenter at #82.
posted by yerfatma at 10:57 AM on November 18, 2009
The next best season on that list from 2009 belongs to Chris Carpenter at #82.
I call New Hampshire bias.
posted by holden at 11:18 AM on November 18, 2009
Exactly what does the word 'deserved' mean to you bornicon?
He led the league in ERA, WHIP and homers per nine, second in strikeouts, shutouts, complete games and hits per nine. He won the Cy Young pitching for a terrible hitting and fielding team that lost 97 games.
Other pitchers had nice seasons; none deserved the award. Or put differently, Greinke is the only pitcher that would have been robbed if he had lost. Why? He was the only pitcher to deserve the award.
posted by justgary at 11:23 AM on November 18, 2009
I call New Hampshire bias.
Mixed with a virulent hate of semiotic derailments.
posted by yerfatma at 12:04 PM on November 18, 2009
Whoa, I thought he was joking when I saw "That's pretty much how I pitch, to try to keep my FIP as low as possible" attributed to Greinke out of context. But he means it:
"David DeJesus had our best zone rating," Bannister said, referring to the Royals' left fielder. "So a lot of times, Zack would pitch for a fly ball at our park instead of a ground ball, just because the zone rating was better in our outfield and it was a big park."
posted by yerfatma at 12:08 PM on November 18, 2009
Exactly what does the word 'deserved' mean to you bornicon?
That no one but Grienke was in contention of winning the award. Like I said, Grienke had a very good year, no one can argue that but to say that he was the only 'deserving' pitcher isn't completely accurate. Felix Hernandez came in 2nd place in the Cy Young voting and he finished the season 19-5 with a 2.49 ERA, you telling me that he didn't 'deserve' the Cy Young award?
I'm not knocking Grienke (as you may be thinking) because he's one hell of a pitcher and hopefully he will win many more Cy Young awards in the future but to say that he 'deserved' the award and that he would've been 'robbed' if he lost is a bit of a stretch but I'm not going to knock you for your opinion.
posted by BornIcon at 01:05 PM on November 18, 2009
Why does every post turn into you trying to define the meaning of a word? It's an award for the best pitcher in the league that year, not every pitcher that had a good year. Also, there'd been about a hundred blog posts in the run up to this award from people who were sure Greinke would be "robbed" of the award.
posted by yerfatma at 01:43 PM on November 18, 2009
That no one but Grienke was in contention of winning the award.
I'm happy you have a personal definition of the word but for everyone's sake, consult a dictionary.
posted by dfleming at 01:55 PM on November 18, 2009
I was asked what the word meant to me in accord to Zack Grienke, not Webster's definition of the word. I would've been more than happy to do that but I would much rather just answer the question that was given to me honestly.
posted by BornIcon at 02:06 PM on November 18, 2009
I would've been more than happy to do that but I would much rather just answer the question that was given to me honestly.
Here's a timeline:
Mkultra said that Greinke deserved the award, which is in line with the definition of the word deserve. He has had a season of merit.
You questioned whether or not he deserved it, based on the fact that other people may deserve it as well. That is when your personal definition comes into play and is wrong for the first time; multiple people may be deserving of the award, according to the definition.
Justgary, I'm assuming out of some state of bewilderment, inquires as to what it means to you. You respond with something that's contrary to the definition of the word again.
You were wrong before you formally declared it. There were multiple deserving people of the award and Greinke, statistically, is the most deserving, hence him being robbed if he didn't get it. Others are less deserving, but still deserving to some extent.
Fuck semantics tire me.
posted by dfleming at 02:23 PM on November 18, 2009
Hernandez and a handful of others had good seasons and deserved mention.
But ... Absolutely no one had a season close to ZG's.
Is there a listing of the votes and voters somewhere? I can't imagine where the other 3 votes went.
posted by cixelsyd at 02:29 PM on November 18, 2009
Two votes to Felix Hernandez and one to Justin Verlander.
posted by dfleming at 03:05 PM on November 18, 2009
Felix Hernandez came in 2nd place in the Cy Young voting and he finished the season 19-5 with a 2.49 ERA, you telling me that he didn't 'deserve' the Cy Young award?
Yes, I'm telling you he didn't deserve the Cy Young, because Greinke had a better year. Deserve to be mentioned? Yes. Win? No.
There are certain years when statistics are close enough to declare two or more players deserving. This year wasn't one of them. Anyone other than Greinke would have been a flawed choice.
posted by justgary at 04:50 PM on November 18, 2009
Greinke was fantastic, and keeping his head up and producing without a lot of run support in KC is awesome. I targeted Greinke early in my fantasy drafts this past year and was overjoyed I did. He pitched his ass off and lost (or received no-decisions) in many well-pitched games. I'm glad he has the award.
posted by dyams at 05:09 PM on November 18, 2009
Chris Carpenter
Trinity HS of Manchester, NH's own Chris Carpenter. I think I might have umpired him once. I do know I worked the plate at Trinity once or twice while he was there. How does a little state like NH come up with so many pretty good players (Carpenter, Fisk, Mike Flanagan, to name a few)?
posted by Howard_T at 05:31 PM on November 18, 2009
Wow, such contention! For the record, I did mean "deserve" from a stats standpoint, rather than a flashier choice- let's be honest, wins and team finish tend to count disproportionately in this race. It's great to see someone chosen purely based on how well he pitched.
Or, put another way- has Sabremetrics finally infiltrated the mainstream?
posted by MKUltra at 08:18 PM on November 18, 2009
As a hardcore Roy Halladay fan, I have to say - the voters got this one right. Greinke was very much the deserving party here. Hernandez was also very good, but not quite in Greinke's class this year.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 10:39 PM on November 18, 2009
Or, put another way- has Sabremetrics finally infiltrated the mainstream?
I don't know if it's that or if the sheer volume of Sabermetrics-oriented bloggers saying Greinke was sure to get jobbed embarrassed the old-school writers into voting for him. If things were less clear-cut, I doubt the writers would pick anyone but the guy with the most wins, as long as his ERA was close to respectable.
posted by yerfatma at 08:39 AM on November 19, 2009
Fair enough & all valid points. I wasn't arguing Grienke's season since he had a very, very good year considering the team that he plays for isn't that good but you guys did make a great case about Grienke deserving the Cy Young award.
/goes back under a rock
posted by BornIcon at 09:08 AM on November 19, 2009
How does a little state like NH come up with so many pretty good players (Carpenter, Fisk, Mike Flanagan, to name a few)?
And don't forget Kyle Jackson, from my Son's High School in Hudson.
posted by smithnyiu at 11:40 AM on November 19, 2009
Good for the voters for getting it right and not just going for the guy with most wins.