11/21/24
October 16, 2009
Yankees yank Ronan Tynan from lineup after anti-Semitic remark: First the Yankees told Challenger the Eagle to take a hike after almost divebombing Derek Jeter and Jason Giambi during the '03 World Series. Now the team is telling another Yankee Stadium postseason tradition that he'd be better off staying at home for Game 1 of the ALCS. ....the team has canceled the appearance of singer Ronan Tynan after the Irish tenor made an anti-Semitic remark to a Jewish doctor who was looking at an apartment in his building on Manhattan's East Side.
"The trouble started when Tynan, 49, bumped into a real estate agent showing an apartment in his East Side apartment building to a doctor from NYU Medical Center."The agent told Tynan, 'Don't worry, they are not Red Sox fans,' according to apartment-hunter Gabrielle Gold-von Simson. "I don't care about that, as long as they are not Jewish' was Tynan's reply."
posted by tommytrump to culture at 04:29 PM - 42 comments
Ronan's explanation was that he was referring to the last "scary" (presumably disagreeable) women whom had just viewed the apartment prior to showing it to the complainer.
If that's all there was to it then Ronan's guilty of choosing his words clumsily by using an inappropriate label to describe some unpleasant visitors he had just met. To take that as anti-Semitic instead of clumsy is just stupid and somewhat pedantically bullyish of the doctor.
Irish folks have had their "holocausts" too, especially during the 19 century losing millions of native Irish to horrible deaths caused by "Great" Britain literally stealing the food of the native Irish's farms or tables so to speak for export and deliberately leaving the growers to starve to death. It was no less of a crime than Germany's and righteous Jewish folks know that if there is one group on this earth that empathizes with the plights of Jewish history ... its Irish folks.
Ronan has apologized for his clumsy choice of words and the doctor should apologize too for being a trouble maker.
posted by Plaintruth at 06:25 PM on October 16, 2009
the doctor should apologize too for being a trouble maker.
By reporting an anti-semitic remark? Your version of troublemaker is apparently different than mine.
posted by dfleming at 07:16 PM on October 16, 2009
"By Jesus, says he, I'Il brain that bloody jewman for using the holy name. By Jesus, I'll crucify him so I will. Give us that biscuitbox here."
I can imagine it being a somewhat crude joke -- a flip on the Blazing Saddles gag about the Irish -- but his "explanation" suggests he just dug a hole for himself and kept digging.
posted by etagloh at 07:27 PM on October 16, 2009
dfleming,
extending the last line then as an explanation:
Ronan has apologized for his clumsy choice of words and the doctor should apologize too for being a trouble maker, attempting to incite ill will between peoples.
posted by Plaintruth at 07:50 PM on October 16, 2009
That's ridiculous. Tynan admits the remark. The doctor who reported it has nothing to be sorry for.
posted by rcade at 07:59 PM on October 16, 2009
Clearly she's a trouble maker. She has already. while accepting Ronan's apology after facetiously stirring things up herself, attempted to extort from Ronan a contribution to one of her favorite causes. Given the NYC setting for his unfortunate attempt at humor ... give me a break, this lady probably "ain't no lady."
posted by Plaintruth at 08:49 PM on October 16, 2009
"God Bless America" should never be sung at a baseball game, ever again, whether it's the playoffs, the World Series, 4th of July, or whatever. That we at least won't have to be subjected to a pompous 7 minute rendition is heartening and is a step in the right direction.
posted by holden at 09:22 PM on October 16, 2009
Sounds unacceptable to me. Attributing the scariness of the prior women looking at the apartment to their Jewishness is what anti-semitism is. I'm glad the doctor reported it. People deserve to know who they are honoring. I'm also glad the Yankees disinvited Tynan. Booing during God Bless America would be bad.
posted by bperk at 09:24 PM on October 16, 2009
What a douchebag.I had descrimination in NYC from a jew for me being latin but also had descrimination in Miami and LA from blacks for being white,nevertheless,at this times of supercilious sensibilities to say something like what he said is really stupid and shows a degree of self-superiority that is quite dumb.I'm glad the Yankees (my favorite team of all times even from abroad) did what they did.I hope he finally learn to engage the brain before losing the tongue.
posted by ogomezmontes at 10:20 PM on October 16, 2009
... give me a break, this lady probably "ain't no lady."
What is that supposed to mean? I love how you're accepting everything Ronan Tynan says at face value and giving him the maximum benefit of the doubt, but you're regarding everything about this woman with maximum suspicion. She's an extortionist now?
Your abuse of this Jewish woman, who did absolutely nothing wrong, doesn't speak well of that Irish tolerance you made such a big deal about earlier in this discussion.
posted by rcade at 10:20 PM on October 16, 2009
What rcade said, only in a less reserved and nice manner. Shoot the messenger much?
posted by scully at 11:39 PM on October 16, 2009
She has already extorted $1,000 from Dr Ronan for the center where she works. One MD shamelessly extorting from another MD after deliberately embarassing him.
Dr. Ronan hasn't a mean bone in his entire body and its at least an even bet she already knew that ... and decided to be a trouble maker anyway.
Do you know her? Do you actually know that she's not a trouble maker, a crazy person, perhaps even a man hater? Do you?
Well, I don't know her either, but I have my suspicions because ... anyone/everyone that knows him or anything substantial about Dr. Tynan, will tell you he hasn't a hateful bone ... not one.
Now, I don't know Dr. Gold or anything about her other than this BS brouha, but until I do, I'm comfortable siding with whom I know to be a good man.
Have you considered that your eagerness to damn Dr. Tynan is indicative of your own prejudices?
posted by Plaintruth at 11:55 PM on October 16, 2009
Yeah, rcade, are you prejudiced against antisemitics or what?
posted by mr_crash_davis at 12:39 AM on October 17, 2009
Do you actually know that she's not a trouble maker, a crazy person, perhaps even a man hater? Well, I don't know her either, but I have my suspicions ...
Let's cut the bullshit and get to what's really going on here. The only reason you are attacking the reputation of this woman is because you're a fan of Ronan Tynan. He has admitted what he said and apologized for it, so the woman's not the issue at all. The issue is whether what he said was offensive or not.
Given the nutty remarks you've been making -- such as calling her a "man hater" on absolutely no evidence at all -- it's clear that you know it's offensive. If it's a joke to tell a real estate agent in New York that all you care about is that your fellow tenants are "not Jewish," it's an extremely tasteless one.
Have you considered that your eagerness to damn Dr. Tynan is indicative of your own prejudices?
As I have said on SportsFilter before, I am a big fan of Tynan. I love his rendition of "God Bless America." But for some reason, my appreciation of his work hasn't turned me into an irrational and malicious attack dog because his mouth bought him some trouble.
posted by rcade at 12:40 AM on October 17, 2009
Kinda amusing. Long live America, lol :)
posted by patriciht8 at 01:01 AM on October 17, 2009
Until receipt of certain confirmation to the contrary, I am going with the solid assumption that Dr. Gold is a nasty man hating, paranoid, crazed cannibalistic evil person who dines on small children stolen from pauper orphanages; who, also opportunistically took advantage of the moment to become a celebrity troublemaker and extortionist.
Time will show the above assumptions to be completely accurate.
posted by Plaintruth at 01:35 AM on October 17, 2009
a nasty man hating, paranoid, crazed cannibalistic evil person who dines on small children stolen from pauper orphanages
She turned you down for a date, didn't she.
posted by irunfromclones at 04:19 AM on October 17, 2009
Tolerancefail!
posted by Drood at 05:25 AM on October 17, 2009
I'm glad he won't be there. Even if he meant it as a joke, he needs to learn that actions have consequences, whether he intended offense or not.
And I agree with holden. I've never really liked the "USA! USA! rah! rah!" stuff that happens at most US sporting events. Save the national anthem for games that matter (Super Bowl, World Series, etc.) and leave the "God Bless America" stuff out all together.
posted by cabuki at 06:32 AM on October 17, 2009
Plaintruth either has a personal interest that he ought to disclose, talking out of his plastic-paddy arse, or trolling us.
posted by etagloh at 07:30 AM on October 17, 2009
My mother would say that Tynan "hasn't had his horns knocked off yet." As for the personal interest, I can reveal the plain truth about Plaintruth's relationship to Tynan, as shown in this file photo:
And I've got that fantastically awful line from Chinatown in my head now.
posted by yerfatma at 08:16 AM on October 17, 2009
I would have to agree with etaloh, he is way beyond playing devils advocate. Cabuki, I don't mind the National Anthem being sung at games, doesn't it happen in most places? I do agree with you on the "God Blesss America" though, It's a game, not a rally. As always yerfatma rules!
posted by jojomfd1 at 08:20 AM on October 17, 2009
Time will show the above assumptions to be completely accurate.
In the meantime, we're going to treat you like a sycophantic idiot until proven otherwise. Time will show this to be the completely appropriate method for dealing with your trolling.
posted by dfleming at 09:05 AM on October 17, 2009
Simple call by the Yankees. They had to choose between cutting ties with a singer of a fairly played-out song or risk being ridiculed by the large Jewish population of New York City (and elsewhere)? No brainer for the organization. Tynan wants to be in the public eye as a singer during some of the biggest sporting events going, in Yankee Stadium, he has to deal with what comes with it, especially when making off-the-cuff comments that aren't humorous to begin with.
They'll probably dust Tynan off after the U.S. attempts to recover from the next horrific terrorist attack, which if history is any indicator, shouldn't be too far off.
posted by dyams at 11:24 AM on October 17, 2009
Does it bother anyone that this could just ruin Ronan Tynan? Let's face it - he could do 50 hours a week in community service at AIDS Hospices and it woldn't generate an iota of media coverage. Now he'll be known forever as a raging anti-semite for this because he has that particular celebrity that is so easy to lose with one misstep.
There's just no room for error and I'm not so sure the punishment fits the crime. Plus, we all are just insta-judges these days. It's like we have to have an opinion on something immediately upon hearing it, and it must have conviction.
I'm not suggesting the Yankees are wrong in their reaction once it got out that Ronan doesn't like to live next to Jews - but I guess I just feel a little bad for the guy now that he's going to face an onslaught for a two second encounter in the hall of his apartment building.
I too wish this would harken the end of the "God Bless America" era. It's been a decade. But the woman who sung it last night gave a rendition that was strangely moving to me. Anyway, I hope this is the last year (says the guy not from New York).
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:29 PM on October 17, 2009
There's just no room for error and I'm not so sure the punishment fits the crime.
I agree that there is no room for error, and the punishment is harsh, but that's the way the world we live in works. Even though I'm not famous, I would never (hopefully) make a comment that is offensive to Jewish people, blacks, etc. because I'm afraid, even if done so in an attempt to be humorous, a few (or many) people would look upon me unfavorably. Tynan could have made this comment to any number of others and they probably would have chuckled or blown it off. This person didn't. People who have gained a certain amount of fame can't pick and choose times when they want a lot of attention versus times they want none at all. I'm sure this woman WAS only doing this because Tynan was well-known. But a comment such as this one brings into question just how many other times Tynan may have made insensitive or anti-Semitic remarks.
As for "God Bless America," that song stirred up a great deal of pride back in 2001 and 2002 or so, but in 2009 the meaning is being lost. Economy in shambles, jobs lost, health care issues, and close to 5,000 U.S. soldiers dead in a military movement the majority of people still don't understand or know what the objective is, not to mention a country that's still got a giant terrorist target on it, it is evident someone needs to have the guts to pull the plug on it. Stop thinking people standing up in the middle of the seventh inning of a baseball game equates to some tremendous showing of national pride.
posted by dyams at 02:06 PM on October 17, 2009
I guess I just feel a little bad for the guy now that he's going to face an onslaught for a two second encounter in the hall of his apartment building.
I think that the thing about our instaculture is that this is a scandal just until the next scandal takes flight. Ronan's apologized and I think that most rational people think that's acceptable and will treat him as someone who made a mistake. He'll atone for his error and I doubt many people will write him off forever because of it.
As outraged as I was by it, I read his apology and felt like he genuinely feels bad about it. If I met him in the street today, I'd be more likely to bring up how synonymous he is with God Bless America than this incident.
posted by dfleming at 02:20 PM on October 17, 2009
Does it bother anyone that this could just ruin Ronan Tynan?
I don't think it will ruin him, but it is a shame that one stupid remark will probably hang around his neck like an albatross forever.
Stop thinking people standing up in the middle of the seventh inning of a baseball game equates to some tremendous showing of national pride.
In my view you are overthinking this. It's a nice expression of national sentiment that's a great improvement over the wretched "Star Spangled Banner," both musically and for the fact that it's not bloodthirsty as hell. It doesn't have to be of monumental importance -- if people take heart in it, where's the harm? I wish we'd drop the anthem and just sing this instead to open sports events.
posted by rcade at 02:22 PM on October 17, 2009
I wish we'd drop the anthem and just sing this instead to open sports events.
That would be fine. But having this, in addition to the national anthem prior to the game, is too much. I'd rather listen to the organ play "Take Me Out To The Ballgame" during the seventh inning stretch (or, since it's Yankee Stadium, why not play Bernie Williams' rendition he does with his band). Pretty soon we'll have "The Star Spangled Banner" before the game, "American The Beautiful" after the third inning, and "God Bless America" in the middle of the seventh.
posted by dyams at 04:36 PM on October 17, 2009
dfleming has called me a politician. I'm despondent, crushed. :)
posted by Plaintruth at 06:24 PM on October 17, 2009
Weedy:
There's just no room for error and I'm not so sure the punishment fits the crime.
The crime: making a blatantly antisemitic remark. The punishment: losing your part-time gig singing in public for an organization that would prefer not to be represented by someone who makes blatantly antisemitic remarks.
I'd say it fits like a glove.
As for this "ruining" him, Tynan got this gig on a wave of mawkish sentimentalism, and while mawkish sentimentalism has considerable legs, I'd say this run has about played out -- and rightly so. He laid this egg and now he's got to live it down. If this "ruins" him, frankly, he'll be no different than a lot of other people who are out of work today, who also had jobs that they assumed would always be there, and who did less than he did to lose them.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 06:55 PM on October 17, 2009
dfleming has called me a politician. I'm despondent, crushed. :)
You are correct.
That is a nasty comparison.
It's not at all fair to politicians.
posted by tommybiden at 08:01 PM on October 17, 2009
Even Donald could've done better than that.
I suppose I shouldn't be disappointed with the gravitas of that last one. After all, what's to be expected from someone who drives two hours one way to Maple Leave games? Well, at least you made an effort.
posted by Plaintruth at 09:27 PM on October 17, 2009
After all, what's to be expected from someone who drives two hours one way to Maple Leave games?
1986 Skippy. I did that sort of drive 20-25 years ago. And it's Maple Leafs, not Leave (sic). Leafs is a correct alternate spelling of Leaves.
Damn it, why do I keep feeding the trolls?
posted by tommybiden at 09:58 PM on October 17, 2009
In my view you are overthinking this. It's a nice expression of national sentiment that's a great improvement over the wretched "Star Spangled Banner," both musically and for the fact that it's not bloodthirsty as hell. It doesn't have to be of monumental importance -- if people take heart in it, where's the harm? I wish we'd drop the anthem and just sing this instead to open sports events.
Why do we need any sign of national unity at sporting events? I don't see the harm, necessarily, but what's the point? I go to sporting events to see physical specimens at the top of their respective games score goals/baskets/touchdowns/etc. and occasionally beat the shit out of each other. Not to affirm my allegiance to the country. While it's hardly an original idea, if we do have to have some national unity singalong, let's scrap both the awful Star Spangled Banner and God Bess America and go with This Land is Your Land.
posted by holden at 10:22 PM on October 17, 2009
I like to sing about my country; about someone else's god, not so much. Good riddance to a bad tradition.
posted by Hugh Janus at 02:05 PM on October 18, 2009
Now he'll be known forever as a raging anti-semite for this because he has that particular celebrity that is so easy to lose with one misstep.
I don't usually view this stuff as a misstep. I think of it as people revealing themselves. You don't accidentally say stuff like this unless you think like that.
posted by bperk at 04:58 PM on October 18, 2009
Yeah, I don't think Tynan has a leg to stand on here.
posted by EnglishSpin at 07:01 PM on October 18, 2009
I don't usually view this stuff as a misstep. I think of it as people revealing themselves. You don't accidentally say stuff like this unless you think like that.
I'd say misstep. I don't know the circumstances enough to say he's revealing himself. I wonder what my worst comments would look like devoid of proper context. It certainly sounds antisemitic as presented, but I'm not ready to make a determination on his heart based solely on this.
Never heard of the guy before this, btw.
posted by tron7 at 01:17 AM on October 19, 2009
I agree about the context, tron. Do you think the context is missing here? Tynan had a brief, passing conversation with a total stranger. Certainly, speaking to friends, alcohol involvement, or a clip of a much longer conversation could change things, but none of that seems to be happening here.
posted by bperk at 09:50 AM on October 19, 2009
I'm not sure if context is missing or not. The article indicates Ronan says it was a misunderstanding so it's possible there's more to it than what we see. The comment, regardless of context, is improper. I feel like I would need more context or more improper comments for me to be able to properly read the man's soul.
posted by tron7 at 01:19 PM on October 19, 2009
God bless America.