12/21/24
October 06, 2008
Video Shows Coach Shoving Young Player.: He(coach) says that action viewed on videotape was justified by some of the events that happened during the game.
Read the comments following the article, the first few are from the childs dad describing the situation in further detail and responding the the bully coach's on-air interview.
I responded on KSDK's web site as follows:
The lack of perspective here is amazing.
The coach should absolutely be banned from the sidelines. He put his hands on a youth in an aggressive manner, and that simply cannot be tolerated. It also sends the correct message to the rest of the league -- no exceptions and no excuses.
However, I find it difficult to believe this kid didn't bring it on himself. If there are a number of people on here who have seen the game film and are saying the victim's team played a dirty and unethical brand of ball, I don't think it's much of a stretch to think one of the same team's players would be acting the fool in the postgame handshake.
Do you think being shoved is going to do irreparable harm to this kid? Or is the surrounding media circus going to be more damaging in the long run? I guess anyone who was ever spanked in a public school or had his or her knuckles rapped by a nun had to have grown up to be a child-abusing felon, right?
George Carlin was right -- you're raising a generation of soft, self-centered little jerks who will grow up and have no idea how to take care of themselves. Actually, this would be the second generation.
In summary:
Coach -- wrong and should be gone Kid -- most likely a little snot who will go unpunished Parents -- unwilling to discipline their own kids and then go bananas when someone else snaps and does it for them
Man, do I miss coaching football.
posted by wfrazerjr at 10:15 PM on October 06, 2008
Now KSDK has removed some of the fathers comments due to a violation of terms of service. I read them all and didn't see/read anything that was out of line.
posted by BoKnows at 11:01 PM on October 06, 2008
Two sides to every story to be sure, however, given that these were 11 year olds in a club game I think the coach should have shown a bit more restraint.
Even if the kid was playing dirty, pushing him in the handshake line only brings the coach down to his level. The only pushing the coach should have done is to push for sactions/suspensions against the kid.
I miss coaching too, but not some of the bullies that I coached with.
posted by dviking at 12:55 AM on October 07, 2008
Tempest in a teapot, I'm thinking.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:11 AM on October 07, 2008
The coach is in it for the wrong reasons.
Probably a frustrated athlete who was not good enough...and now is living his life through a bunch of 11 year olds.
If the team is playing dirty, bring it up with the other coach - after the game when the kids cannot hear it and are more concerned with getting a soda/snack from the concession stand.
posted by Hartsy at 09:14 AM on October 07, 2008
While the coach should absolutely have known better than to shove a kid.... reading the comments below the story posted by those who were at the game puts the incident in a slightly different light. Not only was the victim's team apparently behaving poorly during the game BUT the child himself was purportedly using the "shake-line" to punch opposing players in the stomach as they went by. I can only assume the coach saw this and decided to give the kid a bit of his own medicine. Again - NOT the proper solution, by any means. However, it makes more sense than the unprovoked "attack on a minor" that Wesley's dad is making this out to be. Too bad the other team's videographer didn't catch young Wesley's transgressions on their film.
posted by MAYANKEE at 10:13 AM on October 07, 2008
I say the punk got what he deserved. Smart mouth little brat was just itchin' to fight a coach, I'll wager. I can't see why society doesn't get that this coach was obviously feeling threatened by this 11 year old hooligan. Who knows what kind of psychological damage this poor adult could have suffered at the hands of this menacing threat to civil behavior. It troubles me to no end that rampaging bands of pre-adolescent goons can run rough-shod over full grown adults and not think that at some point the innocent adult is just going to have to defend himself out of fear for his own safety.
I can only imagine the trauma the poor coach is going through now. The uncontrollable sobbing. The constant waking up at night in a cold sweat.
The humiliation of wetting himself out of fear.
In conclusion: Laugh and the world laughs with you, cry and I'll give you something to cry about.
posted by THX-1138 at 10:52 AM on October 07, 2008
I've been involved with youth football for four years now. That coach's actions can not be defended. It is never appropriate to strike out at a player. As I understand it, he is no longer coaching in the league. I don't know if he resigned or was expelled. Regardless, it is the correct action.
If the child engaged in inappropriate conduct, either on the field or in the "high five" line, there is a process for addressing that. Adults need to remember their actions become the lessons that children learn.
It's unfortunate that too many people emphasize winning over the lessons that youth football can teach the kids. It's about teamwork, determination, persevering, reaching for goals, respect for your teammates and your opponents, and winning and losing with dignity.
Youth football has been great for my kids, but the adage does hold true...the worst thing about youth sports is the adults.
posted by glmpllc at 12:37 PM on October 07, 2008
I'm a firm believer that you don't physically discipline other people's kids. If he is coaching kids, then he needs to have other discipline methods in his arsenal. He didn't talk to the other coach, didn't talk to the kid, didn't talk to the kid's parents.
I would probably have the same reaction as this father if some one pushed my kid. I saw a parent grab someone's else kid at the playground and start yelling at him. (Dad was talking on his cell phone, missed the action, but kid reported being pushed, dad took action.) They were 5 year olds, so it was even more unacceptable than this. Still, I would have lost it if he had grabbed my kid like that. Maybe later I would realize I overreacted, but by then I would be in the newspaper.
posted by bperk at 12:43 PM on October 07, 2008
reading the comments below the story posted by those who were at the game puts the incident in a slightly different light.
Yea, except the comments below the story can all be bogus. For example, 1 person saying the victim "got what he deserved", claims the victim received 2 unsportsmanlike penalties during the game for dirty play, which apparently was incorrect (someone else did). Another in the same vein claims that the kid was misbehaving in the line, the coach grabbed him and warned him, and then shoved him after the kid kept doing it. That is also blatantly false as the video shows none of that.
So in fact, you can't trust the comments in that thread at all. For all we know the coach and/or his buddies posted under those aliases claiming those things. All we know for sure is the coach shoved an 11 year old kid. He may have had justification, he may have mistaken the kid for someone else, he may just have taken his loss out on the kid who smiled at him for all we know.
posted by bdaddy at 01:07 PM on October 07, 2008
Yea, except the comments below the story can all be bogus.
As can the story on which they are commenting.
Another in the same vein claims that the kid was misbehaving in the line, the coach grabbed him and warned him, and then shoved him after the kid kept doing it. That is also blatantly false as the video shows none of that.
The video on that site is less than three seconds long. Of course it "shows none of that". The kid could have been poking eyes Three Stooges-style and the video wouldn't have shown it.
The coach's actions were inappropriate, but I wonder what actions would be considered appropriate if an adult sees a kid smacking other kids. Go talk to the parent, who is either not watching or doesn't care? Go talk to the coach? Seems to me you shouldn't just stand there watching kids smack each other while you talk to somebody.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 02:04 PM on October 07, 2008
The coach's actions were inappropriate, but I wonder what actions would be considered appropriate if an adult sees a kid smacking other kids.
Tell the kid to stop. That is pretty obvious what you do. That works most of the time for the short-term. Point out the kid's behavior to his own coach. Take your kids out of the line to prevent them from being hit. Stand in front of the kid so that he doesn't hit the other kids while calling for other coach or parents. There are tons of actions besides pushing a kid that would be effective if the goal was to prevent the kid from hurting other kids.
posted by bperk at 02:22 PM on October 07, 2008
"There are tons of actions besides pushing a kid that would be effective if the goal was to prevent the kid from hurting other kids."
Exactly. I've never understood parents, or other adults, who punished kids for hitting....by hitting them!
What do you think this is teaching the kids? If this one team or this one player were so out of line, the coaches could have stopped the handshake line either before it begins, or as soon as this youngster allegedly hit another kid. Simply take your team and walk away. Much more effective. Don't worry about whether or not the other kid is being punished. Teach your kids the right way to deal with adversity. That's what a coach or parent should do.
As far as the comments under the story, I take this with a tablespoon of salt. The reporter has certain standards that they are supposed to live up to, the anonymous commenters have no such standards.
posted by cjets at 04:21 PM on October 07, 2008
Exactly. I've never understood parents, or other adults, who punished kids for hitting....by hitting them!
You don't have to hit them, but you do, on occasion, have to intervene physically rather than standing there trying to reason with an antisocial little beast.
You're right, though, cjets -- if this game had been anywhere near as chippy as the article and comments suggest, it should have been brought to a grinding halt long before the shake line. As in: this game is over, you both lose, get in your buses and go home. And the coaches should have been the ones making it so.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 06:00 PM on October 07, 2008
"You don't have to hit them, but you do, on occasion, have to intervene physically rather than standing there trying to reason with an antisocial little beast."
I have a five year old. I know all about intervening physically. That's much different than hitting.
And that's definitely not smacking an eleven year old in the head, helmet or not. If the coach had grabbed the boy's arm to prevent him from hitting another kid, I'd have no issue with that.
posted by cjets at 10:35 PM on October 07, 2008
Another in the same vein claims that the kid was misbehaving in the line, the coach grabbed him and warned him, and then shoved him after the kid kept doing it. That is also blatantly false as the video shows none of that.
The video on that site is less than three seconds long. Of course it "shows none of that".
In that "3 seconds" the coach and the player are walking in opposite direction during a victory line. How is the coach going to grab the guy, warn him, then push him after that warning when he hasn't even GOTTEN to the boy yet at the beginning of the "3 seconds". We see that much in the video.
posted by bdaddy at 11:03 PM on October 07, 2008
The coach's actions were inappropriate, but I wonder what actions would be considered appropriate if an adult sees a kid smacking other kids. Go talk to the parent, who is either not watching or doesn't care? Go talk to the coach? Seems to me you shouldn't just stand there watching kids smack each other while you talk to somebody.
1/ Since it's a handshake lineup, tell your kids to walk away. If the other team's parents and coach are upset, explain you'll be happy to shake hands when the little shit on their team quits throwing punches.
2/ Restraint. If my daughter was hitting someone else's kid and they held her with no more force than needed to stop her striking, I'd be perfectly comfortable with that. An adult shoving, kicking, or punching her? I hope they don't mind a foot up their arse.
posted by rodgerd at 11:53 PM on October 07, 2008
In that "3 seconds" the coach and the player are walking in opposite direction during a victory line. How is the coach going to grab the guy, warn him, then push him after that warning when he hasn't even GOTTEN to the boy yet at the beginning of the "3 seconds". We see that much in the video.
You're missing the point. Your claim is that since you don't see the coach warning the kid on that video clip, therefore it couldn't have happened. My point is that given the extremely short duration of that clip, if the coach had warned the kid, you wouldn't see on that clip; therefore, that clip doesn't prove that it didn't happen.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 02:58 PM on October 08, 2008
I don't know how the little brat's get away with all thre crap that they do now, I do no in my child hood if you were out of line you would be put back in line real fast! Do you no what I mean. now a day's even if you yell at a kid or even blow on them to hard you get hell to pay. mayby if you bring your little one's up with some respcet to other people this will not happen.I just can't stand the way parent's let there kid's raise them I see it everyday Iam a baseball umpire,from major to collage it's all the same.cry, cry, cry!
posted by dman at 04:37 PM on October 08, 2008
You're missing the point. Your claim is that since you don't see the coach warning the kid on that video clip, therefore it couldn't have happened. My point is that given the extremely short duration of that clip, if the coach had warned the kid, you wouldn't see on that clip; therefore, that clip doesn't prove that it didn't happen.
You're missing my point. The claim was the kid was walking in the line mouthing off and shoving people, the coach grabbed the kid, warned him, he kept doing it, then the coach finally shoved him.
My point is, how did all that happen when we see the procession line and the coach is walking in the opposite direction of the kid and we see the exact moment when they intersect (which results in a push). What did the coach do, go through the line once, witness the kid acting up, grab him warn him, then run back around and get back in line at the end, then the video starts rolling as we see the second encounter?
posted by bdaddy at 09:00 PM on October 08, 2008
How about, the coach witnessed it, stepped out line, warned the kid, got back in his place in line and observed the kid continuing his behavior? But I don't think you are really interested in the truth that there are many other possible explanations other than the one you've decided is The Answer, so I'm done here.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:09 AM on October 09, 2008
To me this is a matter of responsibility.
The coach had the responsibility to discipline the child properly. The kids getting punched had a responsibility to say something. The parents of the agressor have the responsibility of raising a child who knows how to act properly in social situations. The agressor has the responsibility of exercising good judgment, knowing right from wrong and representing the team properly. The league has a responsibility to make sure the coach is dealt with.
And please stop Blaming the generations. It's just not true. It is my responsibility to know what kind of house payment I can afford. It is my responsibility to know what my interest is and can be. It is my responsibility to be prepared financially. Just like it's my idiot neighbors responsibility to do the same. I even feel that it is the responsibility of the lending institution to make sure they put themselves in a position where they are assured to get their money back. Even, though I am going to get a tax hike because my idiot neighbor overextended his finances on a house that he couldn't afford and the lending institution let him. Age is unimportant. Responsibility is.
Both items from a basic standpoint are only news because too many people didn't take personal responsibility. (an 11 year olds parents are ultimately responsible for the child until child is 18, but the child IS old enough to know better)
That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it.
posted by adammcd at 11:40 AM on October 09, 2008
Sorry for the grammatical errors above.
posted by adammcd at 11:47 AM on October 09, 2008
But I don't think you are really interested in the truth that there are many other possible explanations other than the one you've decided is The Answer
Because my "answer" (that some anonymous guy posting on the thread is making things up or misremembering) is more plausible given what we see in the video.
And why automatically give the benefit of the doubt to the anonymous poster over logic and visual evidence, however short?
You should understand that viewpoint, so I would guess you're just arguing to argue.
posted by bdaddy at 01:36 PM on October 09, 2008
I don't know how the little brat's get away with all thre crap that they do now, I do no in my child hood if you were out of line you would be put back in line real fast! Do you no what I mean. now a day's even if you yell at a kid or even blow on them to hard you get hell to pay. mayby if you bring your little one's up with some respcet to other people this will not happen.I just can't stand the way parent's let there kid's raise them I see it everyday Iam a baseball umpire,from major to collage it's all the same.cry, cry, cry!
Dude, you just gave me a headache. Spell check anyone?
But I don't think you are really interested in the truth that there are many other possible explanations other than the one you've decided is The Answer...
What does Allen Iverson have to do with this?
posted by BornIcon at 07:48 AM on October 10, 2008
I realize that this isn't a first, and we've seen this type of story before. What I found interesting is the father's comments and response to the altercation.