11/23/24
October 12, 2007
The Cardboard Conversation, vol. 1: In the following interview, the first edition of the Cardboard Conversation, I ask Akim Reinhardt, author of the critically acclaimed study of the political history of the Lakota reservation, Ruling Pine Ridge, about Yankees, Indians, and the possible spiritual implications of a plague of midges. The Bronx-born Reinhardt, currently associate professor of history at Towson University, grew up playing little league baseball in Van Cortlandt Park and going to Yankees games with his father.
About the article itself, though... Times change, the meaning of words change. We don't use "knickerbockers" anymore, for example, so having a team with that name would be dumb. Similarly, we don't use "red skin" as a way of referring to native Americans anymore since we realize that it is insulting. At least most of us don't. It would make sense to look into altering the name to something less racist. Same thing with the Indians. We've been over this before, though, and I recognize that there are some people that not only don't care that these team names are insulting, but take it personally that anyone would find the team names insulting. Alas.
posted by Joey Michaels at 03:48 PM on October 12, 2007
The BoSox should have no problems with the Tribe. Although I suspect Colorado will provide more headaches as a more complete team....Go Cubs!
posted by Marko2020 at 03:49 PM on October 12, 2007
The BoSox should have no problems with the Tribe. From your lips to God's Ears. I suspect, however, you can't shout that loud and the Sox will have all they can do to escape the ALCS unscalped.
posted by yerfatma at 04:55 PM on October 12, 2007
That was really interesting. I thought he really put it well about the team name "Indians." I also agree with him on the value of Deloria's Custer Died For Your Sins and that it still holds up. Yeah, I don't recall Locklear either. "The reason I went into baseball as a profession was that when I left school, baseball offered me the best opportunity both for money and achievement. I adopted it because I played baseball better than I could do anything else, because the life and the game appealed to me and because there was so little of racial prejudice in the game. There has been scarcely a trace of sentiment against me on account of birth. I have been treated the same as other men." - Chief Bender They need to add Chamberlain's name to the Baseball Almanac link. Ellsbury's name is already on there.
posted by chris2sy at 05:01 PM on October 12, 2007
...... the Sox will have all they can do to escape the ALCS unscalped. Unscalped? Yerfatma, assuming all other elements were equal, would you use that term if New York had beaten Cleveland and were facing Boston?
posted by tommybiden at 05:40 PM on October 12, 2007
Please tell me you are just kidding.
posted by jojomfd1 at 05:57 PM on October 12, 2007
If they had been facing Yankees, I would have said, "escape the ALCS unraped and with their wallets intact."
posted by yerfatma at 06:23 PM on October 12, 2007
...the Sox will have all they can do to escape the ALCS unscalped Guys, it's yerfatma. He'll go to any lengths to slip a bad pun into a comment. Beware of him; he's a baaaad man. On the article, I found Reinhardt's recollections of his first Yankees game quite entertaining. The use of the words "Red Skin" is blatantly racist, and I have slowly come to the realization that a name change is in order here. There has been a small controversy here in New Hampshire over a couple of high school team names. One is the Tomahawks, who use a feathered hatchet as a logo, and the other is the Warriors, who use a silhouette of a Native American head. I don't believe either has any derogatory racist motive, but rather seek somehow to associate with the more virile qualities of the names. Nor should any offense be taken, save by those who are either super-sensitive, have an agenda to promote, or both. Mind you, this is my opinion only, and I'm willing to listen to rebuttal.
posted by Howard_T at 06:32 PM on October 12, 2007
If they had been facing Yankees, I would have said, "escape the ALCS unraped and with their wallets intact." Got it, Indians scalp, and Yankees rape and steal. It's all clear to me now.
posted by tommybiden at 06:58 PM on October 12, 2007
I was referring to TT not yerfatma, I knew he was joking. I just didn't want to see the train wreck.
posted by jojomfd1 at 09:11 PM on October 12, 2007
I enjoyed that article, thanks. I was wondering if indigenous people in North America are over-represented in some sports (apart from lacrosse, obviously) while clearly being under-represented in sports like baseball. Down here, the indigenous population makes up 2 per cent of the total, but I think someone once calculated that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders represent up to 15-20 per cent of Australian professional rugby league and AFL players. There's something going on, despite (or perhaps because of) many growing up in conditions similar to the Native American 'rez'. If anyone's interested, there's a book entitled 'The Obstacle Race' by Colin Tatz which covers the history of Australian indigenous sports.
posted by owlhouse at 09:19 PM on October 12, 2007
I'd say indigenous people are under-represented across the board here. Even in MILL there are only a few (it seems).
posted by yerfatma at 10:10 PM on October 12, 2007
You do, however, see indigenous Pacific island Americans -- I really don't know what the catch-all term is for Hawaiians, Samoans et al. of Polynesian ancestry -- in the NFL. (I did notice that Nike has launched a line of sports shoes designed specifically to accommodate the feet of Native Americans. Take that with whatever scepticism you usually associate with corporate outreach.)
posted by etagloh at 01:13 AM on October 13, 2007
I really like the idea of Cleveland changing their name back to the Spiders. Too bad it probably won't happen anytime soon.
posted by apoch at 08:13 AM on October 13, 2007
Do Hawaiians count as native Americans? I believe Mike Ken-Wai Lum is the only Hawaiian to play the game.
posted by drumdance at 10:20 AM on October 13, 2007
If memory serves, the United States Government does not recognize indiginous Hawaiians as native Americans. This is actually a subject of some controversy in Hawaii.
posted by Joey Michaels at 02:20 PM on October 13, 2007
Howard_T: There has been a small controversy here in New Hampshire over a couple of high school team names. One is the Tomahawks, who use a feathered hatchet as a logo, and the other is the Warriors, who use a silhouette of a Native American head. I don't believe either has any derogatory racist motive, but rather seek somehow to associate with the more virile qualities of the names. What you say about the motive behind the names makes perfect sense to me. At the same time, I think it's probably time to move on. (FWIW, my local high school team is also known as the Warriors, represented by what looks like a Lakota's head (wrong tribe by far). I'm not involved in any campaign to change the name, but when asked, I have politely declined to purchase any logowear)
posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:32 AM on October 14, 2007
lbb, that sweems to be the moderate and wise course of action. Why polarize the sides of an issue, when sticking to one's own convictions might ultimately cause the correct course to prevail. One note about NH athletic teams that should not go unnoticed is that Dartmouth changed its team nickname from the "Redmen" to the "Green" some years ago. The original nickname was come by honestly, as Dartmouth was established in part to educate native Americans, but the racist overtones were not acceptable any more.
posted by Howard_T at 03:59 PM on October 14, 2007
Interesting read! Derailing immediately now, yesterday, on the radio, our local sports announcer said something like "if the Red Sox can win the World Series this year, it will finally put all that talk of curses away once and for all..." Just when I thought no more mileage could be milked from the curse angle...