11/23/24
June 17, 2005
You're Out!: Gaybaseballdays.com tracks gay & lesbian community days at MLB ballparks. [via MonkeyFilter]
posted by kirkaracha to baseball at 12:16 AM - 33 comments
I checked the official websites of the various teams listed, and only the Giants actually indicated any of these promotions. This just looks like a gay group setting dates at various parks to promote its cause. I've got nothing in particular against that (hell, the Republicans and Democrats and Libertarians and Communists can set up ballpark days for their causes if they want), but they should not make it look like the teams are the ones that are sponsoring the events if they are not. Unless, the teams really are sponsoring the events, but just do not want to publicize the events on their websites?
posted by graymatters at 06:32 PM on June 17, 2005
From Todd Jones while with the Rockies "Yeah, he's got rights or whatever, but he shouldn't walk around proud." No, we wouldn't want anyone different than us to walk around proud. Apparently, Jones has plenty of pride for his 70's porn stash. Oh...and he "seeks to live a godly life." Scary thought.
posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 07:02 PM on June 17, 2005
Interesting-otherwise no comment
posted by daddisamm at 04:26 PM on June 18, 2005
so homosexuals really aren't sports fans, but will show up to a sponsored gay game just to make a statement. Is it more about your gayness than being a fan of baseball or whatever sport? I would love to see a GAY DAY at a Raider game. Yea, sit them right in the BlackHole(diehard raider fans section) and let's see if they get along! LMAO!
posted by bluekarma at 10:54 AM on June 19, 2005
so homosexuals really aren't sports fans I think they're a large group of people, so it stands to reason they don't have one viewpoint on the issue.
posted by yerfatma at 05:30 PM on June 19, 2005
Yea, sit them right in the BlackHole(diehard raider fans section) and let's see if they get along! LMAO! So guys that dress up in weird clothing, wear heavy makeup, hug each other after touchdowns, and generally make spectacles of themselves in public...and you believe that none of them are gay?
posted by grum@work at 06:29 PM on June 19, 2005
GAY DAY ... BlackHole ... LMAO! Hey dude, you're the one talking about your ass in a gay thread.
posted by smithers at 06:48 PM on June 19, 2005
So this is like "military family day" ,"senior day", "college student night", "multilple birth day" or "bring your dog to the Park" night. In other words, its like any other promotion.
posted by daddisamm at 09:37 PM on June 20, 2005
In other words, its like any other promotion. Pretty much, although from my understanding, "gay days" got started mostly because gay people wanted to go to the ball park/theme park/whatever, for the same reasons everyone else does (baseball, hot dogs, roller coasters and whatever), and not be just a tiny uncomfortable pointed-and-stared-at minority.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 06:52 AM on June 21, 2005
I really dont understand what would keep a gay person from a sporting event. I am fat and bald and carry around an Oxygen canister. People point and stare alot. That doesnt stop me from going to a game. I certainly dont see any "fat/bald men using oxygen night." Its nice that team are having these promotions. Howevr, I certainly would believe that gays were attending sports long before these promotions took place. Its all about promoting "the cause" which in some circles, could be controversial. Sports are really no place to promote social issues or are they?? Interesting question.
posted by daddisamm at 10:03 AM on June 21, 2005
daddisamm, I think a lot of people would point to Jackie Robinson and the black players who followed him into the big leagues as having a huge impact on a somewhat similar social issue. Though it took more than a decade to do so, which was probably just the time required to where enough people got comfortable with it. But even if you throw that example, or Title IX, out, I still don't see why sports shouldn't be used as vehicles to promote social issues. They're a big part of our culture.
posted by billsaysthis at 03:01 PM on June 21, 2005
You sight good examples billy-I would agree in both of those cases that you mention. I am just not sure that if gay folks attending basball games would fall into the same type of situation. That said, I would agree that sports can be used to promote social issues...
posted by daddisamm at 03:25 PM on June 21, 2005
I really dont understand what would keep a gay person from a sporting event. I am fat and bald and carry around an Oxygen canister. People point and stare alot. That doesnt stop me from going to a game. Did you ever get stomped outside the ballpark for being fat, bald and carrying around an oxygen cannister? Sports are really no place to promote social issues or are they?? Interesting question. Sports are part of life. They're played and watched by human beings, and the social issues were always there. Before there was a Jackie Robinson in the Major Leagues, there was a policy to exclude people like Jackie Robinson. I understand the impulse to say, "Can't a ballgame just be a ballgame?", but OTOH, Jackie Robinson never had the option of leaving his race at the door.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 10:17 PM on June 21, 2005
I was asking the question-as you can see by my entries, I agree with you lbb-- I just dont see where being gay and being a racial minority are in the same league. While I havent been stomped on for being "fat,bald and using oxygen", I have been treated rudely by people who dont understand what I am all about. I totally understand what racism is and how it can tear apart our society--I have seen it when I lived in the south, in the Navy and out here in the Plains where the Native peoples really got the shaft. Its a shame what Negro League balls players went through. MLB has taken great steps in trying to right this big wrong. I just dont put gays. into the Same category. That could be a mistake on my part who knows.
posted by daddisamm at 11:57 PM on June 21, 2005
I just dont see where being gay and being a racial minority are in the same league. I just dont put gays. into the Same category. That could be a mistake on my part who knows. They may not be in the same category, but then -- as I pointed out above -- putting yourself in the same category as gays, in terms of how you're treated when you go out in public, would also be a mistake. This all came about, remember, because you expressed confusion about why any gay person would want a gay day at a sporting event. I just explained one reason why such events got started (which is not the only reason why they persist today). One way to counter the threat of harassment up to and including physical violence is with visible numbers. You may have been the victim of rudeness, but I very much doubt that you've ever been on the receiving end of some kind of socially- or religiously-sanctioned hatred of fat bald guys with oxygen tanks.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 06:00 AM on June 22, 2005
I just dont see where being gay and being a racial minority are in the same league. Dude, comparing two things does not make them equal but there are enough similarities in this instance to justify using one as an answer to your question. I'd also suggest you look at yourself a little more closely if you're going to equate being treating rudely on occasion to being beaten, killed, humiliated and discriminated against.
posted by billsaysthis at 12:39 PM on June 22, 2005
... although from my understanding, "gay days" got started mostly because gay people wanted to go to the ball park/theme park/whatever, for the same reasons everyone else does (baseball, hot dogs, roller coasters and whatever), and not be just a tiny uncomfortable pointed-and-stared-at minority. Just out of curiosity, if 100 gay people showed up at a ballpark together, why would they be pointed at, stared at or made to be uncomfortable?
posted by wfrazerjr at 01:15 PM on June 22, 2005
if 100 gay people showed up at a ballpark together, why would they be pointed at, stared at or made to be uncomfortable? Because they have better haircuts than the rest of us and we're jealous!
posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 01:43 PM on June 22, 2005
Dude, comparing two things does not make them equal but there are enough similarities in this instance to justify using one as an answer to your question. I'd also suggest you look at yourself a little more closely if you're going to equate being treating rudely on occasion to being beaten, killed, humiliated and discriminated against. Trust me, Bill, I know what its like to be discriminated against and I dont have to "look closely" at myself either. You have read what wrote--At no time did I aquate being treated rudely to the things you mentioned. I have seen violence and discrimination up close, I have a victim of a racial crime- and thank God I wasnt killed. So Bill dont come down on me as not knowing what I am talking about. And I will say it again I do not see gays and a racial minority as the same thing. You told me before that I made a judgement about you with out knowing you-well you are doing the same to me right now.
posted by daddisamm at 05:31 PM on June 22, 2005
Just out of curiosity, if 100 gay people showed up at a ballpark together, why would they be pointed at, stared at or made to be uncomfortable? They wouldn't be -- or they'd be a lot less likely to be than if, say, just a couple of them showed up. That's the point.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:08 PM on June 22, 2005
You have read what wrote--At no time did I aquate being treated rudely to the things you mentioned. You didn't equate them, but when I asked, "Did you ever get stomped outside the ballpark for being fat, bald and carrying around an oxygen cannister?" you responded, "While I havent been stomped on for being "fat,bald and using oxygen", I have been treated rudely by people who dont understand what I am all about." Again, this was in the context of your question about why gay people would stay away from a sporting event that they wanted to attend, given that you get pointed and stared at and you still go. The answer is that, among other reasons, gay people don't risk just rudeness but outright violence if they go out in public and people feel that they don't belong there. In other words, to put it in the simplest possible terms, gay people (some of them) don't do what you do because their situation is not the same as yours.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:17 PM on June 22, 2005
They wouldn't be -- or they'd be a lot less likely to be than if, say, just a couple of them showed up. That's the point. I'm trying to figure out how someone at a ballpark would know a couple gay guys were there, unless they were waving "LIZA ROX!" placards or wearing matching T-shirts that said "I'm the pitcher and he's the catcher!" Do MLB fans have heightened gaydar or what? And wouldn't gays be MORE likely to be harrassed if they all showed up at the same time? /exaggerated stereotypes off I guess I don't fathom the perceived persecution/mistreatment/uncomfortability factor of being a homosexual at a baseball game. Not being gay, I wouldn't know what it felt like to be stared at for being gay, but in all the games I've attended at all the stadiums I've hit, I don't remember hearing someone yell out, "Hey, look at the gay guys!" Maybe I just wasn't listening. I'm not saying there shouldn't be Gay Days at sporting events -- hey, whatever brings in more fans for the Blue Jays, I'm in. I'm just saying -- is it necessary?
posted by wfrazerjr at 09:58 PM on June 22, 2005
You are right Lbb I said what I said-I screwed by including my sitaution after I asked about gays going to a ballpark--I really wasnt trying to compare the two sitatuions--I dont consider my sitatution anything near to that of a gay person.--I was trying to type too many tings at one time. I am sorry if I confused you. My main point has been that I cant really compare racial minorities and gay folks. thats it--I wasnt trying to compare my situation. Please dont read anyting more into it..
posted by daddisamm at 10:49 PM on June 22, 2005
I'm just saying -- is it necessary? You mean, would life cease to exist on this planet if it didn't happen? c'mon, wfrazerjr, we're talking about a baseball game. As for the rest of it, I'm going to assume you're sincere and not being disingenuous when you say that you don't understand the "perceived persecution/mistreatment/uncomfortability factor of being a homosexual at a baseball game". It's not the baseball game per se, it's anywhere in public -- as I said to daddisam, anywhere that straight people feel that gays don't belong. If you take a look at the Wikipedia article on antigay violence, you'll see a list of some famous incidents -- and for every one of those, there are probably hundreds, if not thousands, that never made the news. More interesting to the current discussion is the cited "gay"-bashing of straight comedian Norm MacDonald who was attacked by two men who simply thought he was gay. He wasn't, as per your discussions, waving a "LIZA ROX!" placard or anything like that. They looked at him, decided he was gay, and went to town. A gay person (and let's assume we're talking about a couple of straight-looking-straight-acting clones who simply want to hold hands like all the straight couples around them are doing) doesn't have anything to fear from the average MLB fan -- except, of course, the kind of verbal harassment and insults that straight people are never on the receiving end of, and thus aren't likely to take very seriously. But 99.9% of these fucking idiots learn politeness and discretion in a hurry when they're facing not one or two targets, but one or two hundred. And the ones that are motivated to go beyond verbal harassment to violence, well, they tend to learn discretion too. They're all stupid, but not many of them are outright suicidal.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 08:08 AM on June 23, 2005
daddisamm, you've mentioned I cant really compare racial minorities and gay folks a few times in this thread and I'm hoping a conversation I had recently might shed some light. I have a 60 year old gay uncle in Dallas who's dying of cancer and while I was there on vacation a month ago we talked about the condemnation and difficulties he's endured as a gay man growing up in Texas. My uncle talked about being involved in pro-rights marches in Texas and California in the 60's and 70's and how obstacle-ridden life can be when you're out of the mainstream and the subject of derision and hatred. Regarding these issues, he said, "I know how blacks feel about being prejudged, and it's not much fun." I think a lot of people who go through life with blinders on (that is not an accusatory statement...I don't feel this description fits you) believing the world is black or white, this way or that, right or wrong, will never understand that sexual preference may not be a preference at all and we may be hard-wired from birth regarding our sexual attractions. How do we as straight people know whether to believe this or not? We can't know for sure because we can't walk a mile in their shoes for a perspective different than our own, which is exactly why I believe we should give anyone the benefit of the doubt when they say "I was born this way." In today's society, why would anyone choose to be gay? Let's face it; life is difficult enough without feeling the scorn of others. I believe when we're talking about the treatment of gays and blacks the similarities are much more transparent than the contrasts.
posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 09:54 AM on June 23, 2005
you have a point texan, my prayers to your uncle.. I know there are some similarities between gays and racial minorities. I guess whats holding me back is my moral thoughts about gays. Thats where the contrasts, for me, somes from.
posted by daddisamm at 12:41 PM on June 23, 2005
I guess whats holding me back is my moral thoughts about gays. That's because you persist in seeing homosexuality as a conscious, willful, against-y, whim-of-the-moment choice. Flip the script. Imagine someone having to face the kind of condemnation implied in your "moral thoughts" statement, and ask yourself why on earth someone would subject themselves to such bigotry on a whim.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 01:48 PM on June 23, 2005
You dont know how I view homesexuallity LBB-and at this point I am not going to discuss it. Homosexuality is a part of our world. In that respect, I have to find a way to live with it. And I have. Thanks for your comments.
posted by daddisamm at 05:37 PM on June 23, 2005
You dont know how I view homesexuallity LBB-and at this point I am not going to discuss it. Homosexuality is a part of our world. In that respect, I have to find a way to live with it. And I have. Thanks for your comments.
posted by daddisamm at 05:38 PM on June 23, 2005
You dont know how I view homesexuallity... Pssst. Your comments are showing.
posted by lilnemo at 06:10 PM on June 23, 2005
As for the rest of it, I'm going to assume you're sincere and not being disingenuous when you say that you don't understand the "perceived persecution/mistreatment/uncomfortability factor of being a homosexual at a baseball game". It's not the baseball game per se, it's anywhere in public ... I understand the reality of homosexuals being targets for idiots in society. I don't understand what the point is of a "Gay Day" at a baseball game. I mean, I looked through the Wikipedia link, and I didn't see one mention of gay-bashing at a baseball game. I've ever attended a couple baseball games with gay fellows who were certainly not "straight-acting clones", as you put it -- and they didn't seem to have any difficulties, nor did they turn down a return trip. Did some people make snide comments about them, especially Joe's rainbow t-shirt? I suspect so ... just the same way Joe made fun of a few hicks seated a couple rows in front of us. Why not "Gay Day" in a Catholic church, or "Gay Day" at your local Hooters? I'd think incidents would be more likely there than they would at a baseball game, and so the publicity and the hoped gaining of tolerance would be better served, would it not? Again, to be perfectly clear: * understand homosexuals are treated unfairly in society * not in favor of it * not grasping the connection to MLB * very much loving Scott Thompson throwing out the first pitch this week at Rogers Centre
posted by wfrazerjr at 09:37 PM on June 23, 2005
And I will say it again I do not see gays and a racial minority as the same thing. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. From my perspective the way these two groups of people have been treated by the majority are very similar. You want to claim otherwise be my guest--I'm no more gay or black than you--but from reading the newspapers and such IMO I'm talking about facts not opinion. wfrazer: Well, if these events come off with little or no negatives, then we're that much closer to the day when we don't need to hold them or have this ridiculous discussions. Journey of a thousand miles and such. Goes back to the quesiton at the top of this thread about using sports for social issues and you either agree that's worthwhile or not.
posted by billsaysthis at 12:29 AM on June 24, 2005
Good for them.People should stand up for who they are.