04/19/24
January 09, 2004
Dominik Hasbeen?: I'd love to hear Cujo's true thoughts on the subject. "Yeah, they treated me like a leper while the fossil was embraced like a messiah. But we're the best in the west, and I'm back with the big club, so everything is peachy keen."
The way the whole situation has been handled solidifies my belief that Ken Holland is a complete moron. The only reason the team is successful is because Illitch gives him carte blanche to play with. A championship team was already built when he took over after the 96-97 season, and he has made boneheaded move after boneheaded move. Sergei's holdout in 97-98? The fire-sale signings of Clark, Ranford, Sammuelsson, and Chelios in 99, then only keeping Chelios? Ken Wregget? Getting rid of guys like Aaron Ward and Maxim Kuznetsov, then saying the team needs a big, bruising D-man? Throwing Avery into the Kuznetsov-for-Schneider deal? The guy has made one good trade in his tenure...Hasek for Slava Kozlov. But that created another cluster-fuck in goal because he couldn't unload Osgood. I shudder to think how this team will fare in the coming years with him at the helm...
posted by MeatSaber at 10:17 AM on January 09, 2004
Poor old Cujo. I don't know about you guys, but I have a really hard time feeling sorry for the guy. He got himself in this mess (by turning down Toronto in favour of the Wings). Cujo knew the pressure was going to huge on him to carry the team like Hasek did. Not to mention the guy was making 8 million a season sitting on the bench / press box. Yeah Ken Holland and the Wings did treat him poorly, but that's pro sports. You don't perform and you have to suffer the consequences. Cujo is a very good goalie, but the stigma attached to him is that come playoff time he can't be counted on to carry his team. Last years playoff further cemented that belief. No matter how good he is during the season until he gets hot and wins big in the playoffs he won't be regarded as one of the NHL's elite goalies.
posted by camcanuck at 10:34 AM on January 09, 2004
Last year's playoffs cannot be blamed on CuJo. It's true, the goalie's job is to let in fewer goals than the other guy...but, damn. The Wings scored 6 goals in 4 games. Did they expect him to chip in a couple goals, too?
posted by MeatSaber at 10:44 AM on January 09, 2004
Yeah Ken Holland and the Wings did treat him poorly, but that's pro sports. You don't perform and you have to suffer the consequences. Wing management completely mishandled the situation they put themselves in. It wasn't some blindside that caught them off-guard. They just plain fucked up. Pro sports management usually isn't this damagingly (a word?) incompetent. Besides, it's not like Cujo was horrible last year. And once the groin became a problem and the Wings were forced to play Cujo, he has responded fairly well, even with all the injuries to the skaters in front of him. Don't get me wrong, Cujo pissed me off leaving Toronto, but things couldn't have worked out better for the Leafs, and especially their rebound retrieval in their own zone.
posted by garfield at 10:48 AM on January 09, 2004
garfield: I agree the Wing's managment looks really incompetent, if not down right stupid in the way they handled this whole issue. I just can't feel sorry for CuJo. You read the press and it's all 'poor Curtis...', and that's crap. No one expected Hasek to come back, and the way people reacted says a lot about them (*cough* Ken Holland *cough*), but Curtis isn't suffering. MeatSaber: I agree the team in front of CuJo wasn't very good, but when you're an 8 mill / year goalie your supposed to steal games for your team they wouldn't otherwise win. Hindsight is always 20/20, but how would you guys have handled this differently? Tell Hasek to take a hike, and then see Colorodo pick him up? If it was me I would never had pick up CuJo in the first place. There are too many other good goalies at there that could've have been secured for a lot less money or traded for.
posted by camcanuck at 12:40 PM on January 09, 2004
Cujo goes post-to-post as well as anyone in the L, but I'm not a huge fan. Can't handle the puck, plays ridiculously deep in the net and is always good for a softie. Never won anything either. That said, the Wings should keep him. Hasek just doesn't seem that motivated to come back and when he was alledgedly healthy he wasn't up to Cujo's current standard. The Wings can win with Cujo. I'm not so sure they can with a slightly injured (ergo disinterested) Hasek. I don't blame Ken Holland as much as you guys though. Sure, he signs Cujo to replace Hasek - no one on the Wings blames Cujo for last year, but when the opportunity to get a Vezina, Hart, and Cup winning goalie that has played with your best players before comes up - you're dumb not to take that chance. It's a good move not motivated by contracts, money or media - it's motivated by winning. The resulting situation is unfortunate, but life grinds on.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 12:49 PM on January 09, 2004
I don't have much pity either, camcanuck, but the way the guy sounded while going down to Grand Rapids, he seemed like a broken man. And to top it off, he responded with as much class as humanly possible in the face of such adversity. Both sides wanted something: The Wings had exclusivity, and Hasek wanted to win the Cup again. I would've restructured the deal, as Hasek and the team were well aware they had just made a significant investment in Joseph, and signing the comeback deal 'as is' put the team in quite a pickle.
posted by garfield at 01:04 PM on January 09, 2004
You also have to look at it from CuJo's perspective. He was going to a team that had just won the Cup, and was poised to win again...and the Wings have (or had) a reputation of being a class organization to play for. I truly believe that it hurt him to leave Toronto, and his tears during his parting press conference were genuine. Then, after being beaten in the 1st round (remember...4 1-goal games), he is basically chastised by the media and most fans in the area. Then, the guy from a year ago wants his job back...and CuJo is left as the odd man out...just like Ozzie was when Hasek arrived the first time. Hasek has said publicly that he didn't want to come back for anyone other than the Wings...if that's true, why bring him back? Why not tell him "thanks for your help, Dom, but we have a capable goalie already...enjoy your retirement"? They basically told CuJo that he wasn't good enough, despite everything they told him the year before. I wish he'd never left Toronto, too...because he's always been one of my favorites, and it hurts me to see him fucked over like this, after paying his dues over and over in the league...
posted by MeatSaber at 01:26 PM on January 09, 2004
Hey MeatSaber you're right - they did basically tell CuJo he wasn't as good as Hasek. He ain't. I like the fact that the Red Wings seem really only concerned with winning (they did offer Federov the best deal - it's not as if they just let him get away). I wish the Leafs were as brutally committed like that. Fucked over? No one is getting fucked over - if anything, if Cujo was truly worth 8mill a year someone would pay it - Sure they'd wait until the trade was favorablely timed; but if he's that good, he'll find work. Frankly, I'm of the opinion that really there are no more than 3 or 4 truly outstanding goalies and a whole buncha really good ones (goalies are soooooo good compared to what I used to watch). And if you're not Martin Brodeur no GM is going to bend over backward to try to get you when they probably can do just as well for less - see Osgood, Hackett - two terribly average goalies skill-wise but totally working fine on those teams.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 06:10 PM on January 09, 2004
Weedy, I won't argue whether or not CuJo is better than Hasek. The message the Wings management sent to him was that he wasn't good enough...period. They relegated him to 3rd string one year after telling him he was their savior...all because the team in front of him couldn't score for four playoff games. They played him hurt in the playoffs, bitched when he got the surgery he needed, left him available in the waiver draft, and sent him to the minors. That's not "fucked over"? If it isn't, I'd like to know what is... As for him finding work, you have to understand something. The Wings are in a real pickle, just like they were in 2001, when they traded for Hasek, and still had Osgood. They've got a very good, world-class goalie that they can't unload because the GMs of the league A) are tired of trying to deal with Ken Holland, who wants the world in the trades he makes and B) frankly, they like to see the Wings squirm. I don't know if you noticed, but the Wings aren't exactly the favorite team around the front offices in the NHL...
posted by MeatSaber at 10:50 PM on January 11, 2004
As a Wings fan, I am ashamed of the way Cujo was treated, but I'm still not sold on his consistency. I'm glad to have both him and Hasek. I think they both respond to adversity so generally one or the other will be playing well.