11/21/24
November 04, 2003
Donnie baseball is back: Don Mattingly is going to be the Yankees new hitting coach. In other Yankee news, Willie Randolph is taking Zim's place as bench coach.
I don't think they'll have a lot of patience with Soriano- let alone his own patience issues. Yankees are looking interesting this year - Are they going to go after Colon? I don't understand why they don't try to get Maddux for one or two years - they're losing Wells, Clemens and maybe Petitte: And they want to lose Waever. Anyway, Soriano might be the ultimate trade unit to help shore up some holes. Though, in fairness, I can't remember the last time the Yankees gave up a real prospect that turned into anything. They ususally trade very well (Mondesi being the exception). Nick Johnson looks so unathletic - like a postal employee. I guess that's baseball for ya.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:34 AM on November 04, 2003
Agreed. Great move on both ends for the Yanks. It's great PR-wise, and more importantly, he should be able to provide a good amount of discipline to Soriano and Johnson.
posted by rosey8810 at 09:11 AM on November 04, 2003
Interesting! Should definitely help out Soriano and Johnson. So who is going to help Giambi?
posted by jerseygirl at 09:18 AM on November 04, 2003
This is interesting news, here in Seattle we have just hired Paul Molitor as hitting coach...hoping he will help Jeff Cirillo and possibly Mike Cameron. Hitting is a big part confidence. If guys think that Molitor and Mattingly are helping them then they probably will be.
posted by vito90 at 09:29 AM on November 04, 2003
even if it helps soriano's discipline in a noticeable way, he'd still be terrible at taking pitches. 2003: 38 walks, 130 k's, 682 ab's. 2002: 23 walks, 157 k's, 696 ab's. 2001: 29 walks, 125 k's, 574 ab's. there's a ceiling to what this guy is capable of achieving with discipline. does anybody think the yanks haven't tried already? it's criminal that he's been lead-off for as long as he has. everyone in nyc is saying he'll be wearing an outfielder's glove next year. dumb move. if there's one thing he can be taught, it would be footwork. he's athletic. if he could get his defense up to around average he would be a more valuable second baseman. i would think it would be easier for him to achieve being a better second baseman than to be a patient hitter. most hackers, stay hackers. the big question is: do the yanks see him as a part of future teams? as far as mattingly, well he's got to know that being hired is first step to being hired. suprised he's willing to take that chance at tarnishing his rep in new york.
posted by oliver_crunk at 09:54 AM on November 04, 2003
err....'being hired....is the first step to being *fired*'
posted by oliver_crunk at 09:55 AM on November 04, 2003
Donnie Baseball the new hitting coach of the Yanks? Willie Randolph on the bench? Can Ron Guidry be far behind as pitching coach? I think this will help. Donnie's apparently been able to teach his sons, at least. The two of them live in my area, and one was drafted this season. The other is an incredible prospect and a stinking hitting machine. Let's see what he can do with Soriano, although if I were George, I'd trade his butt and sign Walker.
posted by wfrazerjr at 10:18 AM on November 04, 2003
Walker, defensively, may raise some questions.
posted by jerseygirl at 10:28 AM on November 04, 2003
Bah. George pays for hitting, and Walker is not THAT bad defensively. In fact, I think he gets a bum rap. He'll make a few errors, yes, but he has more range than he receives credit for, and I think he makes the routine plays. Who would show interest in Soriano in a trade? I see the Cards declined their option on Vina yesterday, but I don't know what they could give up. Edmonds? :)
posted by wfrazerjr at 10:38 AM on November 04, 2003
Hey, don't sell me on Walker. :) I like the guy. I hope he's in Boston next year, actually. (unless we can't get Castillo)
posted by jerseygirl at 10:42 AM on November 04, 2003
i bet the giants would take soriano (maybe even weaver too)......say for something along the lines of: durham, felix rodriguez and a minor league bat. /speculation. they won't let soriano go to an AL team i would think. he's still got a shot of becoming the next sammy sosa but more likely will wind up something like jeremy burnitz.
posted by oliver_crunk at 10:51 AM on November 04, 2003
He may have been a pretty good hitter, but I can't see him having a positive effect on the current team. After all, the Yankees only made the playoffs twice while he was there - and at the tail end of his career. Clearly he doesn't carry the "just knows how to win" aura. They should have rehired Chris Chambliss. /rehash
posted by mbd1 at 10:57 AM on November 04, 2003
I think that if Giambi's knee heals he'll be fine. Remember that he was still among the league OPS leaders despite having a "terrible" year. Moving Soriano to the outfield would be stupid. It's easier to get a powerful OF than a powerful 2B. He's not dreadful in the field, his fielding hasn't cost them games - his strikeouts have done a lot mroe harm than his errors. The move that would be appropriate would be out of the leadoff hole, not out of the infield. I was ready to give up on him but I think I changed my mind. I say keep him around for another year, especially since he's still cheap. Johnson doesn't necessarily need discipline. In fact I can't pinpoint anything that he really lacks, but his style seems similar to Don's and that's why I think under his teaching he will improve. He made huge strides this year and even though he's older than most "newer" players he's still climbing the hill, I think, not descending. mbd1, the just knows how to win thing doesn't apply to hitting coaches, at least not to the degree it does to managers and players. these guys are already professional hitters, the hitting coach is there to correct new flaws, instill confidence, etc. Don has shown that he is good at this, while working in spring training - they wouldn't have hired him if he wasn't able to do the job. He got it on more than just his name (though obviously the name helped to).
posted by Bernreuther at 11:15 AM on November 04, 2003
Yeah, I was posting (mostly) tongue-in-cheek there.
posted by mbd1 at 11:22 AM on November 04, 2003
isn't soriano a free agent next year? or is he arbritration eligable? if the yanks move him to the outfield they decress his value. he would command less money. shrewd move if they pull it off.
posted by oliver_crunk at 11:53 AM on November 04, 2003
[Todd Walker]'ll make a few errors, yes, but he has more range than he receives credit for, and I think he makes the routine plays. I watched him play around 100 games this year. I came into the year thinking the same things. I can honestly say none of what you wrote is true. He has no range to his left. None. Kevin Millar, no defensive wizard he, got caught 20 feet off first on a number of occasions this year trying to cover Walker's defect. As for the routine plays, that's out too. Every potential double play grounder was an adventure. Sometimes he made amazingly difficult plays (think of that diving stab of the ball off the grass's edge in the ALCS). Other times he turned surefire double plays into an out at second. Soriano's lack of patience does limit him, but not so much that you wouldn't want him on your team somewhere. I think center is a good place for someone as fast as him. Put a reliable fielder at 2B and let Soriano outrun his mistakes in the OF. 'Cause Bernie Williams doesn't have the speed to overcome his circuitous routes any longer: if he were the bellman in an elevator you'd wind up falling out the side of the building.
posted by yerfatma at 11:57 AM on November 04, 2003
I still don't think Soriano out is that helpful. The replacement options at 2nd can have some offensive value, but none are deep threats or RBI threats of even remotely the same magnitude. His actual OPS is merely average for an outfielder (slugging is high of course, but the OBP drags it down) and by putting him there you clog up a spot that can be used by someone else with more pop. So instead of 2 power hitters in 2nd and OF, you've got one in the OF and a regular 2nd baseman. Not to mention he is strongly against returning to the OF and is working hard at 2nd. He'll still get better there. I still consider his lack of OBP in the leadoff spot much more harmful than the few DPs he can't turn. Page2 has an interesting (though somewhat disagreeable to me) column about how they'd shuffle things this offseason. It's not written for comedy's sake, but some of the decisions there are still funny in their own right. They operate on the assumptions that Pettitte is gone and that the Boss will up the limit to 200 mill (which is not unreasonable but imho unwise and unnecessary) - they propose trading Soriano and Weaver to Arizona, Johnson to St. Louis, and getting Schilling and Edmonds back in a 3 way deal. They claim that this is realistic (seems a bit far fetched to me). Then drop Boone, shift Jeter to 3rd and Bernie to DH, sign Sheff for 15, Tejada for 15, Castillo for 7, and a few relievers. There's another pitcher in there somewhere too but I forgot who. Anyway, it's a bit out there, but the main 19 of the team would be at 179, leaving 21 for 6 reserves, under that $200 mill budget. I think they can do it in the same amount of dollars as this year, but the fact that Edmonds is apparently available is intriguing. he'd be better for this team than Vlad or Sheff or Manny. And cheaper. Oliver, not sure exactly on Soriano's status but I know he's cheap for one more year.
posted by Bernreuther at 12:34 PM on November 04, 2003
Walker was absolutely on fire in October, so if you're basing his replacement value on that I'd expect a bit less. if the yanks move him to the outfield they decress his value. he would command less money Fantasy value or real baseball value? How many teams are just letting 30/30 (even 40/40) guys slip through their fingers. Offensively he's in a class with Rodriguez, Guerrero and Beltran. I would think Soriano's value is pretty high no matter where a team would choose to play him...the only thing that seems to be affecting "value" in this climate are current contracts. Also...he's arbitration eligibile this year
posted by YukonGold at 12:42 PM on November 04, 2003
Fantasy value or real baseball value? real baseball value. (don't know too much about this stuff....so please tell me if i'm wrong). if he's eligable next year (not sure and i can't seem to find it) after playing in the outfield all year, his peers are players who are closer to what he can provide offensively. thus he's not worth as much in front of an arbitrator as he would be if he was a second baseman. again, i have no idea about the intricacy of arbitration. but i would think it would at least decrease his value, not increase it. Offensively he's in a class with Rodriguez, Guerrero and Beltran. no, maybe, no. How many teams are just letting 30/30 (even 40/40) guys slip through their fingers. a whole bunch of big names got put on waivers. every penny counts now. a half a million here or there can make or break a budget. it's not the numbers the player is putting up.....it's the numbers they are asking for their coffers.
posted by oliver_crunk at 12:59 PM on November 04, 2003
I'm not saying he's Bill Mazeroski, but Walker is not terrible. He's below average, perhaps, but that is greatly offset by his ability at the plate. If his range is weak to the left, Nick Johnson or a better fielding first baseman will help that. And anyhow, how great does your range have to be to play second base? If you have terrific range, they make you a shortstop. Walker would be a great fit for the Yankees, and any defensively liabilities would be swallowed by the remainder of that line-up.
posted by wfrazerjr at 01:00 PM on November 04, 2003
Blah - Jose Cruz Jr. is two years removed from a 30/30 season. Actaully he is strikingly similar to Soriano - and not in a good way (though clearly Soriano has more power and a higher upside).
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:06 PM on November 04, 2003
And anyhow, how great does your range have to be to play second base? Not that great. And Walker's worse than that. However, I think you underrated second basemen. It's not range that gets you turned into a SS, it's arm strength.
posted by yerfatma at 01:08 PM on November 04, 2003
In other Yankee moves... Wells? No option for you. Heredia? Later. Cashman talking to Seattle Management? Georgie don't play that. Jeter? Been playing ALCS and WS with ruptured tendon. May need surgery. Busy NYY day.
posted by jerseygirl at 04:17 PM on November 04, 2003
Wells? No option for you. Man, us fat guys just gets no love.
posted by wfrazerjr at 05:34 PM on November 04, 2003
Prolly pretty dead by now, but here is an Evansville columnist's take on Donnie's return. By the way ... Luis Sojo, who played in parts of seven seasons with the Yankees from 1996 through this year, takes over from Mazzilli as the first-base coach. how cool is that?
posted by wfrazerjr at 08:06 PM on November 04, 2003
I hope David Wells ends up pitching middle relief for Tampa Bay, so that the Yanks and the Jays can kick him when he's down.
posted by molafson at 11:57 PM on November 04, 2003
Not offering him the option doesn't mean he won't be back. They may give him a small incentive laden contract to keep him aboard with low risk. I am really getting worried about Pettitte leaving.
posted by Bernreuther at 07:58 AM on November 05, 2003
Verrry interesting that Yankee fans clearly want to keep Soriano.
posted by cg1001a at 01:18 PM on November 05, 2003
Verrry interesting that Yankee fans clearly want to keep Soriano.
posted by cg1001a at 01:18 PM on November 05, 2003
I like this. Common wisdom says that this will be very good for Soriano. Maybe he'll learn a little plate discipline. Aside from him, I think Nick Johnson may be the biggest beneficiary. Look out for him this year.