11/05/24
September 02, 2003
When I read this piece: the first thing I thought of was this. I don't want to discuss Karl's views, but the issue of upper level management. Is there any rhyme or reason to it? Are yesterday's stars more apt to receive positions (coach, GM, etc.) based on their playing days than an assistant on a consistent playoff team? Which is more apt to fail? Who is more qualified? More inside...
posted by lilnemo to basketball at 01:37 PM - 17 comments
Larry succeeded as a GM/coach? News to me...
posted by tieguy at 02:00 PM on September 02, 2003
Phil Jackson was a starter on two Knicks championship teams.
posted by billsaysthis at 02:01 PM on September 02, 2003
Larry took the Pacers to the NBA Finals, something his predecessor Larry Brown, and successor Isiah Thomas could not do.
Larry the GM got rid of Ron Mercer (enough in and of itself), shipped out Brad Miller (who I think has gone from underrated to overrated), fired Isiah Thomas, and is close to signing Rick Carlisle. All within 3 months. At the very least, not a bad start.
posted by lilnemo at 02:10 PM on September 02, 2003
Has this ever happened in Football? Sorry to derail, but I'm just curious about that, considering the old boys club that seems to run that joint.
posted by garfield at 02:12 PM on September 02, 2003
Garfield - Mike Ditka was a HOF tight end and won a Super Bowl as a coach. I believe Mike McCormack was a HOF player and won a title as a GM, but it's possible that I just made that up. Tom Flores was a star player as well. I think the mentality behind some of these hirings is A) Marketing - the idea that people will buy tickets to see a "Thomas-coached" team or a "Bird-coached" team, and B) the idea that such a coach with such cache will be able to woo free agents to their town. "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach."
posted by vito90 at 02:30 PM on September 02, 2003
thanks vito.
posted by garfield at 02:46 PM on September 02, 2003
btw, if you don't know, like me: Mike McCormack Tom Flores
posted by garfield at 02:49 PM on September 02, 2003
Yeah - I agree, superstars don't make great coaches. Say 'm Michael Jordan and some on asks me how to properly throw down a underhanded reverse jam. I'd say jump here, twist away from the denfender, switch hands, pump and follow through with your tongue dragging on your chin. Then go shoot that ad for Raovac. To him it's simpe. Role players have to learn the systems to a tee, have to practice hard, don't take the coach for granted and know the game inside and out to succeed. Just like catchers. This was all probably covered in the article I didn't read. Sorry.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 03:08 PM on September 02, 2003
Well put Weedy,
And who better to exemplify that comment than Joe D.? Who coincidentally finagled Darko out of a monsterous buyout, into a Rent to Own agreement. If only they could have gotten Delfino out of his buyout. Keep pluggin' Joe D., keep on pluggin'!
posted by lilnemo at 03:41 PM on September 02, 2003
I think there's a bit of Peter Principle behind athletes-turned-coaches, but some of them are successful. Joe Torre was the 1971 National League MVP and appeared in the All-Star Game nine times. Phil Jackson was a starter on two Knicks championship teams.
One of his teammates was former US senator/presidential candidate Bill Bradley.
posted by kirkaracha at 04:06 PM on September 02, 2003
Speaking of Joe D., shhh. But did anyone notice how Joe shipped Curry out for Hunter? Curry will make a defensive contribution for Toronto, but Lindsay will likely sit (even though Joe likes him). So is it one-sided? Nope. Curry counts as $2.8 M this year, Lindsay about $1M more than that. But next year he is a UFA. Thats a nice chunk off the cap to spend on bringing Delfino aboard eh?
posted by lilnemo at 04:24 PM on September 02, 2003
Just an FYI correction: Phil Jackson was injured and did not play during the Knicks 69-70 championship season and was a reserve (not a starter) on the Knicks 72-73 champs.
posted by cg1001a at 07:56 PM on September 02, 2003
But he looked so elegant sitting there on the pine.
posted by billsaysthis at 10:06 PM on September 02, 2003
A few things... 1) Don't put Larry Bird in the same sentence as Jerry West as an executive -- not in terms of longevity or success for that matter. Sorry. Just please don't. Getting to the Finals does make him better than Elgin Baylor, but when another of your major moves was signing Austin Croshere to a long-term deal that screwed the Pacers big-time, it's tough to call yourself a front-office maestro. 2) I find that where this article apart short is that it kinda tries to make the "kids these days" case (or perhaps it's "black kids these days") but he doesn't point out how this is differs from any era or league. The NBA exceptions you would be looking for would be West and Lenny Wilkens. 3) Most annoying was the effort to lump Charles Barkley and Patrick Ewing in there. Barkley isn't doing anything that Bill Walton hasn't done for the last 15 years, and Ewing is doing what most aspiring head coaches have done for the last 50. So I wonder what responsiblity these guys are supposedly shirking.
posted by jackhererra at 10:57 AM on September 03, 2003
I thought Donnie Walsh signed Croshere to that deal. Good points all.
I'm glad you brought up Lenny. I thought he got a raw deal last season in Toronto. One of the true great basketball minds in my opinion.
posted by lilnemo at 12:03 PM on September 03, 2003
Walsh's signing, with heavy prodding from Larry.
posted by jackhererra at 11:08 AM on September 04, 2003
Hughes brings up an interesting point. Many Superstar GM's and Coaches have failed, and failed miserably. While mid-level or "utility"players have had appreciable success. Does ego truly drive Superstars out? Does the lack, or lesser ego of "lesser" stars afford them more or less credibility with players?
I think tenured assistants and "utility"players fare better as coaches and GMs than "Superstars". I can only think of 2 notable exceptions, Larry Bird and Jerry West.
What former players, star or otherwise have made a good transition upstairs?