May 31, 2003

Posting the best record in the East sure doesn't pay the rent.: Rick Carlisle is out as head coach of the Pistons, and Larry Brown is apparently in. Is removing a head coach who had a tough run in the playoffs after leading his team to a regular-season title a good idea?

posted by wfrazerjr to basketball at 04:24 PM - 16 comments

I think so. Carlisle didn't fit the type of basketball that Dumars wanted to play, and he didn't play the rooks as much as he should have. Sure they had a 50 win season, but Cliff Robinson and Michael Curry are rendered ineffective come playoff time after a long, hard season.

posted by corpse at 04:38 PM on May 31, 2003

There really is no such thing as job security for coaches, is there? 100 wins over 2 seasons, Coach of the Year and East finals the next year. Yeesh. I hope the Pistons crash and burn this season to prove a point that a good coach can only do so much, it's up to the players to get past the East finals. Carlisle is a good coach and should land on his feet fine.

posted by therev at 04:39 PM on May 31, 2003

I think it's a crock of shit. Carlisle, and as Dick Vitale points out in this column (, Paul Silas, were let go after leading their teams to outstanding seasons. There's a point, as therev says, where you have to expect your players to do something, and the Pistons just didn't do a DAMN thing in the East finals. Did Carlisle suddenly become a moron? I don't think so. The Nets were just a better team, and the Piston players didn't play the game that got them the best regular-season record. As a sidenote ... Dickie V should never, NEVER be allowed to write. Anything.

posted by wfrazerjr at 05:06 PM on May 31, 2003

I agree, he should only be allowed to speak.. at high volumes. On national TV.

posted by corpse at 05:17 PM on May 31, 2003

It should also be noted that Silas was fired because George Shinn is a fucking idiot, Joe Dumars is not, he just sees Carlisle's limitations.

posted by corpse at 05:21 PM on May 31, 2003

Corpse, I agree totally about Shinn. Could you expound, however, on Carlisle's "limitations?" Where were they in the regular season? And if you plan to point to him overplaying veterans and not playing rookies enough, where was Dumars? As a GM, doesn't he step in and say, "Hey, give these guys a blow?"

posted by wfrazerjr at 05:30 PM on May 31, 2003

I keep hearing how Carlisle didnt play the rookies. Okur played extensive minutes during the regular season and Prince was given the starting job early in the season. After playing horrible offense and even worse defense, and losing all five games he started, he was yanked. What more could the man do? He gave them their shot, Prince just didnt capatilize on it. And after seeing Prince shoot around 28% and just play awful in the Eastern Conference Finals, I tend to think Rick was right on about his decision.

posted by Fluxcore at 06:25 PM on May 31, 2003

I'm too drunk to make point now. Stupid saturday afternoon vodka. I stand by my statment though! at least for today.

posted by corpse at 06:30 PM on May 31, 2003

Fluxcore, I like your point about Prince. I think that his flash-in-the-pan success in the playoffs probably killed Carlisle, even though, at a second glance, it made no sense to give him quality minutes. I agree with you wfrazerjr that Dick Vitale should be given carpal tunnel just to keep him from writing anything. I also think that corpse should include his drunken points.

posted by therev at 06:46 PM on May 31, 2003

Yeah, yeah. He probably shouldn't have been fired. He was a great coach, but the NBA is about scoring points. His teams didn't do that, and it was totally unjust, but so go the times. I still believe that fatigue of the veterns was a factor, he make shouldn't have started the rooks during the seaons, but prince had like 42 DNPs. Those are mintues that could have given the vets plenty of rest. I wish him all of the best luck and larry brown or whoever inherits the pistons will get one hellva foundation to work with, plus a high draft pick.

posted by corpse at 07:12 PM on May 31, 2003

Carlisle is probably just as well getting the boot. He either gets $2m to sit on the sidelines next year or, more likely, will get a hefty raise to take the Portland job after Cheeks goes to Philly. And, somewhat on topic, can anyone believe that Cleveland is offering Van Gundy $25M/5 years? Puh-leeze! For the Pistons to give Larry Brown that contract is one thing, especially when they might have a quick road to the Finals with Darkic(sp?) to play in the middle from next season, but JVG's record with the Knicks doesn't seem to justify anything close.

posted by billsaysthis at 12:35 PM on June 01, 2003

Van Gundy is hugely over-rated. He's never taken a team higher than they should have been on paper and Cleveland is making a mistake in offering him that much money. He's a good coach with a good team, not a great coach who can do good things with a bad team, and the Cavs, Lebron included, will be a bad team.

posted by therev at 03:18 PM on June 01, 2003

Apparently Gund realized that JVG was too rich and demanding for his blood: Silas is in.

posted by billsaysthis at 03:53 PM on June 01, 2003

It makes me very sad that Jim O'Brien had his contract renewed a couple of weeks ago. I have nothing against O'Brien, but I think Carlisle is a better offensive coach, and there's the Celtics connection. Also, Carlisle in Boston reunites that great Indiana Pacers coaching staff from the Bird days. Ah well.

posted by Bryant at 04:26 PM on June 01, 2003

Here's Mitch Albom's take and Drew Sharp's. They are the lead sports columnists for the Detroit Free Press. Albom you probably know. Basically the word is that Carlisle was too rude and contrary with the administrative side of the Pistons. In part, too, important players like Chauncey Billups, Chucky Atkins, Tayshaun and others made their feelings known that the team had to run more. Kevin Garnett would like to be reunited with Billups, and so Detroit is wishing on a star a bit, too, and thinking they could maybe get Garnett... which it would help to have a high profile coach. As for Van Gundy, I'm no Van Gundy fan, but he did take a very weak New York Knicks team to the NBA finals, in part on a lucky Allan Houston shot...

posted by BobbyLove at 07:05 AM on June 02, 2003

Larry Brown can command the big dollars because of his fashion sense.

posted by kirkaracha at 12:59 AM on June 03, 2003

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