04/24/24
December 16, 2010
Considering your Hall of Fame Ballot: (requires non-IE browser) A nice visualization of player values for this year's candidates. A little more info on it. In related news, I was pleased to see a first-time voter openly state his criteria for Hof voting.
Oh, and my ballot's a big one:
Bagwell, Larkin, Walker, Martinez, Trammell, Raines, Alomar, McGwire, and (not listed) Blyleven.
9 out of 10 possible votes.
posted by grum@work at 10:40 AM on December 16, 2010
I'm confused by the first link: it seems like an interesting graphic, and it's nice to be able to overlay players, but:
- I'm not clear on what these values are, besides WAR; what's "Wins above MVP"? and how is it some people have larger bullseyes than others- how can a player have fewer wins above replacement than another player, but nearly as many wins above MVP?
- The circle pattern seems nice, but one huge shortcoming is that circles are a terrible visual way to compare area; we are bad at judging relative areas of two circles (as exploited daily by pizzerias around the world); I was surprised that Bret Boone had nearly as many WAM as Jeff Bagwell... until I realized he had less than half
- 3 seemingly overlapping dimensions seem a poor choice for comparing HoFers, even assuming WAR et al reflect baserunning and defensive contributions. While I appreciate the "Look, everything they do either contributes to winning or doesn't", I don't get the three circles, and what this is supposed to tell us that WAR does not
That said, I was inexplicably tepid on Bagwell's candidacy (he had some great years, but also seemed to fade out) but the size of the circles made me revisit his baseball-reference page, and realized he was still raking solidly up until those last couple of years of a failing body. For some reason- and I guess it's this trick of memory that had the Veterans' Committee putting lackluster players in the Hall- I overweighted the last couple of years for how good he was in his prime. And also, sadly, reminded me how DUMB that trade was that had Boston letting a hometown future HoFer go for a 36-year-old relief pitcher. Granted Boggs was clogging third, but the well-run Red Sox of today would have found a way to get Bagwell on the field, even if at 1st or DH. Jesus, what a dumb trade...
Also, I was tepid on Martinez, but offensively he really does hold his own with just about anyone; I hope the voters can and will see past the lack of defense, given how many mediocre defensive 1Bs get in on their bats alone.
posted by hincandenza at 04:49 PM on December 16, 2010
Sorry, the background probably would help. Here's WAM AND WAE.
how is it some people have larger bullseyes than others- how can a player have fewer wins above replacement than another player, but nearly as many wins above MVP?
Just my guesses, but I think the overall bullseye size is their WAR and the inner circles show how much of that is made up of the other two bits. So a player with far fewer total WAR but near equivalent WAM would have had a couple of amazing seasons. Brett Boone seems to be the most glaring example, so let's test my theory . . . yeah, it looks like he has two (or maybe three seasons) of beyond all-star play and then the rest is all pretty average.
circles are a terrible visual way to compare area
Unless you drag one on top of the other.
It's interesting to look at the HoF Median circle and then see how many of the players above or near that middle point won't get much consideration.
posted by yerfatma at 05:28 PM on December 16, 2010
1. If a player is a Hall of Famer in my estimation, he'll get my vote the first time he's eligible. I see no point in having a waiting period. Nobody is getting any better or worse at this point.
I agree with not having a waiting period.
However, I hope he takes into account new information (or, organization of information) that might change his opinion later on.