May 18, 2010

Hanley benched for lack of hustle: But he's not apologizing: "We got a lot of people dogging it after ground balls. They don't apologize."

posted by justgary to baseball at 01:29 PM - 15 comments

and with Hanley's benching, the 4 fans in the stands went home

posted by Demophon at 01:58 PM on May 18, 2010

Why don't they just leave him alone? He seems to know what he is doing. He is better at what he does than anyone else in the organization. As soon as he got there, they started with their foolishness. Suddenly, they had a haircut and jewelry rule. Now, they care about errors. Look around your team before you single him about for an error. I don't know why this annoys me so much.

And, another thing, Gonzalez should just go ahead and bench Ramirez for as long as his little heart desires. Gonzalez is the one who is going to be out of a job.

posted by bperk at 02:11 PM on May 18, 2010

Why don't they just leave him alone?

Well it could be that he has a reputation of being a guy who loafs on the field and is only concerned with himself. A reputation that he has had since his days in the minors with the Red Sox.

Last year there was a Yahoo article talking about motivating Hanley. While Wes Helms may not have the street cred or popularity of other players, he is a guy that is a respected voice in the clubhouse, but he can not get the instant support that Hanley can if he leads properly.

According to ESPN the Marlins have the second youngest team in MLB, do you really want them looking up to a guy that dogs it like that? Everyone can wish to be the player he is, but do you want them looking to be the person that he is?

posted by Demophon at 02:47 PM on May 18, 2010

Then why even get a guy with that reputation? If you are more concerned with off-the-field nonsense than productivity on-the-field, then the Marlins wasted their money.

As far as last year's article on motivating Ramirez, do you mean the year he won the batting title? The same year he came in second in NL MVP voting? It's just ridiculous.

posted by bperk at 03:12 PM on May 18, 2010

Maybe because you hope he might mature and then you get the benefit of the extreme talent. Perhaps because other players have had similar reputations in the minors only to develop into productive major league players. It is guys like him and Manny Ramirez and Lastings Milledge that bring these types of criticisms on themselves by not playing 100% all of the time.

Earlier this season there was a report that Albert Pujols didn't run out of the box on a small controversy dusted up and was done in a day because he had a reputation for playing the game the right way. Shame on Albert if it was true, but because he has a track record of playing correctly the issue just went away. Lastings Milledge doesn't run out a ball because he thinks its a homerun and it is on blogs for days. Manny pops up a ball in Tampa (like 5 years ago I know) and doesn't run it out and it is talked about on NESN and WEEI for years because these guys have histories of doing these kinds of things.

And yes the article was from last year when he won a batting title and finished SECOND in the MVP vote, but could have possibly finished FIRST if he had played hard everyday. Maybe if he hadn't needed to be motivated he could have helped his team to win the 5 extra games they would have needed to make the playoff or 6 extra games to win their division.

If HanRam likes it or not, the other players are going to follow his lead and if he isn't hustling everyday on every play the others guys aren't going to either. If Ramirez is right that other guys are dogging it on similar plays it could be that Gonzalez has chosen to take on the biggest baddest guy in the yard and make an example so that others will follow or maybe he just got tired of seeing Ramirez do this repeatedly.

posted by Demophon at 03:35 PM on May 18, 2010

Perhaps because other players have had similar reputations in the minors only to develop into productive major league players.

If he isn't a productive major league player than the Marlins and most other teams don't have any productive major league players.

If HanRam likes it or not, the other players are going to follow his lead and if he isn't hustling everyday on every play the others guys aren't going to either. If Ramirez is right that other guys are dogging it on similar plays it could be that Gonzalez has chosen to take on the biggest baddest guy in the yard and make an example so that others will follow or maybe he just got tired of seeing Ramirez do this repeatedly.

I find this kind of argument completely bogus. How can Ramirez be both a guy that is not a leader and a guy that everyone will follow when he does bad things? Are they playing better because he is an awesome player or worse because there are a handful of times when he didn't hustle enough. It all just smacks of finding something to pick on with this guy. Oh, well, he might have come in first in the NL MVP voting (though he won the batting title) if he didn't need motivation? I can't believe this is a serious criticism of him.

And, if you can really pinpoint when in a game when he got hurt, ragging on him for not running fast enough to get the ball after his error just seems like bad timing. If Ramirez does this all the time, then why not come down on him a time when he wasn't injured. If you want to manage your team by taking out the biggest baddest guy in the yard, then go right ahead. You will be looking for a job shortly.

posted by bperk at 03:57 PM on May 18, 2010

This seems like a rash and foolish move by Fredi Gonzalez. It's probably a make-or-break year for him with the Marlins, and he couldn't have timed the move worse. Ramirez was injured at bat in the preceding inning. How can you not give your franchise player the benefit of the doubt in that situation?

Conflicts like this almost always end up with the manager packing his bags, not the player.

posted by rcade at 05:04 PM on May 18, 2010

Well, I mostly am with you guys, but it's starting to appear that Hanley Ramirez is a bit of a primma donna.

I don't think that just because your best player is loafer you should leave him alone. You should try to correct that immaturity. This is not the first time Ramirez has been outed in this fashion. If it's true - it's a helluva waste.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 06:06 PM on May 18, 2010

Ramirez was injured at bat in the preceding inning.

I honestly don't believe that. I mean, I believe he was hurt, but I don't believe that was the reason for his lack of hustle. If that was all he had he should have taken him out of the game. And with his history I'm not sure how he can be given the benefit of the doubt.

Gonzalez was in a tough situation. He probably won't win this, but I fail to see how he could have any control of the team and not respond. Honestly, that was a pretty pathetic display.

Joe Posnanski's take.

posted by justgary at 09:57 PM on May 18, 2010

Gonzalez was in a tough situation. He probably won't win this, but I fail to see how he could have any control of the team and not respond. Honestly, that was a pretty pathetic display.

Why didn't he just handle it privately? What is the point of going off on Ramirez to the media? And then he compared him unfavorably to other players and mocked him as a marquee player. It was just a pointless exercise and really bad management. If you are trying to make the Marlins better, starting a war of words with your star player in the media is a bad way to go about it.

posted by bperk at 07:37 AM on May 19, 2010

I couldn't care less what he did last year. His actions make him a loser in my book. ENOUGH SAID!!!!

posted by Doehead at 08:23 AM on May 19, 2010

I guess that settles it, then.

posted by rcade at 08:50 AM on May 19, 2010

Why didn't he just handle it privately?

Eh, whatever. And I don't mean whatever in that I'm dismissing your opinion. I just don't think it would have made a difference with Ramirez. The jog after the ball was pretty public. Everyone knows what the benching was for. I don't believe Ramirez has the maturity to deal with it either way.

I mean, I get it. Treat your star player with care. But this wasn't an isolated incident. Who knows what they've dealt with 'privately' in the past.

posted by justgary at 09:46 AM on May 19, 2010

Maybe it wouldn't have made a difference. I just don't see how going about it so publicly and them demanding an apology (which is just generally a dumb thing to do) does anything but escalate the situation. Just as a fan, I find it annoying when things like this get in the way of winning. Gonzalez made a big deal about the jewelry and haircut nonsense as well. I don't buy into that sort of thing. It seems like an exercise in control. The team is better with Ramirez, just work this foolishness out.

posted by bperk at 12:26 PM on May 19, 2010

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