11/05/24
January 21, 2009
PETA withdraws offer to Vick: PETA withdrew an offer to Michael Vick for an anti-animal abuse commercial after he leaves prison. Vick's people reportedly wanted PETA to offer its support for Vick to return to the NFL.
I wish I had thought of her ... then again, maybe not! Thanks for help on posting the second link.
posted by jjzucal at 08:59 AM on January 22, 2009
From the article:
Today, PETA sent a letter to the National Football League asking that convicted dogfighter Michael Vick be subjected to a psychological test as well as an MRI brain scan like the one now in use at the Western New Mexico Correctional Facility in order to look for evidence of clinical psychopathy or anti-social personality disorder
Fuck you Peta for making me take Vick's side in this. And what if he is a psychopath? What are they going to do? Send him here?
posted by cjets at 01:41 PM on January 22, 2009
cjets,
The reason for PETA requesting the tests is because Vick and his lawyers want them to support his return to the NFL. Why would they want to do that without assurance that he is rehabilitated? If he is a "psychopath", then PETA will simply not support his return. That doesn't mean he can't return, it just means that they won't be backing the NFL to allow it. Did you read the letter sent?
PETA was totally willing to allow Vick a second chance in their view, until the USDA's most recent report was published and released. In it was more detail of what Vick actually did, by his own admittance (at least after he was confronted with a failed polygraph). The new details involving the treatment of the dogs is pretty cruel. While I am not always on-board with PETA, I will never support Vick again, nor would I want him to ever be considered a role model for anyone, which by playing in the NFL, almost ensures that would occur for some.
While I'm not sure that this "brainscan" will prove anything without a doubt, I certainly understand PETAs stance in this matter.
posted by BoKnows at 04:03 PM on January 22, 2009
While I'm not sure that this "brainscan" will prove anything without a doubt, I certainly understand PETAs stance in this matter.
The brain scan is what bothers me. I have no issues with them wanting to know that he's rehabilitated. But the way one judges rehabilitation is through Vick's actions, not through a brain scan.
He needs to serve his time and act like a good citizen. Anything else, like this proposed brain scan is so much Peta PR bullshit.
I may agree with alot of their causes but they always act like such fucking assholes about it that I end up wanting to take the other side.
posted by cjets at 04:24 PM on January 22, 2009
He needs to serve his time and act like a good citizen.
I think PETA agrees with that too. That's what they wanted him to do, make a public apology and admit all of his actions and the complete idiot nature of what he did. Then he lied on a polygraph. And now his lawyers seem to be trying to coax PETA into supporting his return to the NFL before he can prove it with action, not just words.
I think the letter states that the proposed MRI shows similarities in 90+% of what would be considered a "psychopath's" brain. I don't think it's all PR bullshit, but I'm not sure it's their place to request such a test. Maybe his future employer would want that security, I would.
posted by BoKnows at 04:53 PM on January 22, 2009
All Peta had to say was that they offered Vick a chance to make an anti-dog fighting commercial. But he made it conditional on Peta's supporting him to play in the NFL so they withdrew the offer.
I'm fine with that. I'd say good for Peta.
But that's not good enough for them. They need to go all SF on us and want a brain scan. And, again, I'd ask what will they do if the brain scan indicates psychopathology? Send him to the transporter room and beam him to the negative zone?
I think what he did was heinous. He needs to serve his time like any other criminal and stay out of trouble afterwards. I have no issue with a lifetime NFL ban either.
But until it's common practice for murderers, rapists and pedophiles to receive brain scans, then Vick shouldn't have to either.
posted by cjets at 05:16 PM on January 22, 2009
Why must the scan be "common" practice before Vick undergoes the test? Why is he so special? Don't you think the murderers, rapists, and pedophiles could then use the same argument? The fact that it is in use at the Western New Mexico Correctional Facility tells me that it's being used in the right places, on the right people. I agree with your view that PETA could have just walked away from the PSA with a simple explanation of their disagreements, but I don't think Michael Vick deserves any special treatment based on what is common and what isn't. What he did certainly is not common. What if the NFL upholds PETAs request and also requires the scan, would that increase its validity for you? You'd think that if he were committed to doing right, he wouldn't let an MRI get in the way.
posted by BoKnows at 06:36 PM on January 22, 2009
Anyone ever seen that HBO documentary about the woman who runs PETA? I can't remember her name off the top of my head but as far as psychopaths go she could give Vick a run for his money.
posted by cheemo13 at 07:28 PM on January 22, 2009
Why must the scan be "common" practice before Vick undergoes the test?
Because the brain scans and the "results" found as a result of the scans have no applicability within the criminal justice system.
Why is he so special?
Exactly. Why is he so special that he alone must undergo a brain scan?
Don't you think the murderers, rapists, and pedophiles could then use the same argument?
How exactly would you use a brain scan on criminals?
Experts seem to think that it isn't even good science.
If they're right, then there may come a day when othersthe government, employers, even your spousemight turn to technology to determine whether you are a law-abiding citizen, a promising new hire or a faithful partner. But skeptics say that talk of mind-reading machines is nothing more than hype. "They're marketing snake oil," says Yale University psychiatry professor Andy Morgan. "We've been really skeptical of the science.
Peta is and always will be a bunch of showboating assholes who will do anything to get their causes talked about.
And I guess to the extent that it has you and I talking, they've succeeded. They've also succeeded in, once again, destroying their own credibility.
The brain scan is a bunch of nonsenical garbage. And there's no reason Vick out of all the criminal psychopaths in the country (outside of those unlucky enough to be incarcerated in Western New Mexico) should have to submit to it because Peta says so.
On Preview: Ingrid Newkirk and I certainly agree
posted by cjets at 07:37 PM on January 22, 2009
Why is he so special that he alone must undergo a brain scan?
He's not alone. He's just the only convicted NFL player who abused animals in an illegal dog fighting ring. He's the only former player to "body slam" the "losers" to the ground with the intention of breaking their necks and backs. Its not like there are past cases to refer to.
How exactly would you use a brain scan on criminals?
Well, lets say that there is an anomaly in the brain structure of people that have killed, raped or molested others. Wouldn't you like to know that there is a measure of if a person can be rehabilitated vs. those that are incapable of showing remorse or empathy for their crimes? That could be the difference between letting someone back on the streets to do it all again vs. someone who genuinely is capable of changing their life.
I agree that the science can be debated, but it sure would be interesting to know if he falls in the 94% of captured "psychopaths" or if he is in the other 6%. All sciences start of in an infancy stage, which much dispute, this one isn't any different.
PETA are media hounds, I agree fully. I also agree that PETA doesn't have the authority to require such tests to conclude their beliefs or to convince others of their stance.
I, personally, appreciate the idea of using new methods to learn more about why people do what they do. And if someone like Vick, who did these heinous things to dogs is the guinea pig for a new science, I don't see why it's a bad, unreasonable request.
posted by BoKnows at 08:08 PM on January 22, 2009
Well, lets say that there is an anomaly in the brain structure of people that have killed, raped or molested others. Wouldn't you like to know that there is a measure of if a person can be rehabilitated vs. those that are incapable of showing remorse or empathy for their crimes? That could be the difference between letting someone back on the streets to do it all again vs. someone who genuinely is capable of changing their life.
Sure. That all sounds good. But it's an awful lot of conjecture. And until we KNOW the science works, it's unfair to judge criminals (or anyone else) using it. I also think that using it selectively could violate due process (I'll let a lawyer figure that one out)
PETA are media hounds, I agree fully. I also agree that PETA doesn't have the authority to require such tests to conclude their beliefs or to convince others of their stance.
I'm glad we found some things to agree on.
I also love dogs. I was raised with them and have always owned one. I took my Golden for a walk in the park today between posts here. And, again, I think what Vick did was heinous. No argument here.
And that, to me, is the special talent of Peta, they're so far over the line that they force a dog lover like me to defend Michael Vick.
posted by cjets at 08:20 PM on January 22, 2009
And until we KNOW the science works, it's unfair to judge criminals (or anyone else) using it.
The only way to determine if a science is valid is to experiment with new theories, trial and error and so forth. And I don't believe that his result -if he were to take the test- would be anything more than just another test case in an attempt to validate or invalidate the ideas proposed. Do you approve of other criminals taking the scan to create a base line of measure? If so, why do you exclude Vick?
I think we agree on more than just the nutiness of PETA, cjets, and I appreciate the debate.
posted by BoKnows at 08:35 PM on January 22, 2009
I think we agree on more than just the nuttiness of PETA, cjets, and I appreciate the debate.
Same here, Boknows. I appreciate it as well.
posted by cjets at 08:49 PM on January 22, 2009
PETA was totally willing to allow Vick a second chance in their view
I apologize for starting my comments like this but fuck PETA!! To say that PETA is "willing to allow" Vick a second chance is bullshit! Who made PETA the authority to "allow" anyone a second chance? I think that we can all agree that what Vick did was wrong but if the man does his time, stays out of trouble and shows remorse for his actions, then let the man live his life and continue his football career...that is unless the actual powers that be allows him to, not some nut job from PETA that probably couldn't tell the difference between a football and a basketball.
posted by BornIcon at 01:16 PM on January 23, 2009
PETA was totally willing to allow Vick a second chance in their view
posted by BoKnows at 01:21 PM on January 23, 2009
In my view, PETA can stick it! They may be trying to do the right thing but they seem to be opportunistic in this situation IMO.
posted by BornIcon at 01:42 PM on January 23, 2009
Whether it's the right thing or not, I think we can all agree that their view may or may not hold any water at all with anyone except themselves. Unfortunately, they do have the ability to publicly smear anyone they choose, by their own admission.
posted by BoKnows at 01:55 PM on January 23, 2009
Yeah, you're absolutely correct.
Well played, Bo..well played.
posted by BornIcon at 02:32 PM on January 23, 2009
In related news, The former VP candidate Sarah Palin shoots 4 ducks, a helpless wolf caught in a trap, and 3 baby seals all while her 7 year old daughter is in tow. A member of PETA (Who wishes to remain anonymous for reasons we could not figure out) says she's a shoe-in to be the Republican candidate in 2012.