11/23/24
March 26, 2007
"Calling it March Madness slaps lipstick on a pig.": Robert Lipsyte takes on the NCAA's corporate carnival: "the Big Dance for sportswriters, the Bracket Racket for gamblers, a frat-rat party, a racist entertainment, and a subversion of higher education, perhaps democracy as well."
posted by etagloh to basketball at 12:23 PM - 16 comments
The comments from Sonny Vaccaro are intersting, but there isn't much new here for us to digest. I wish he would present a more detailed idea of his briefly-mentioned suggestion of paying the players. In general, I agree with most of his sentiments, but I would like to see more than what sounds like a bitter screed, and some ideas and recommendations presented with that screed.
posted by Bonkers at 02:25 PM on March 26, 2007
First we have to admit there's a problem. I find that it seems we're a little quick to reject such a synopsis under the all-comforting blanket of "Well - you think of a better way for me to get my basketball fix", and then moving on. I still think too many in the NCAA, college administrators, recruiters, professors, journalists, mothers, etc. are complicit with a corrupt and wholly embarassing system. I love me some March Madness - but it is lipstick on the pig. I suppose I shouldn't consume it since doing so will only perpetuate the problem, but I haven't. My bad. Maybe because, well - it's not my country. Yeah - I'll go with that one. But it's a fucking joke, no? And it is racist. I don't think you have to have a case built for you to see that. Not that this should be some kind of scapegoat for the black community - but I can see why I'd be pissed about it. Absolutely.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 03:16 PM on March 26, 2007
Not sure I see how it's racist. Unbalanced perhaps, but not racist. I could be swayed by a decent argument though. Something more than "there's a higher percentage on the court than in the school." If you want to get all statistical, the US is 12.8 black according to census data. 12.8 percent of 12 is about 1.5 so you should only have 1.5 black people on each team. I'm not saying that's the way it should be, I'm saying that's why I think it's a stupid argument. In most states -- all the one's I've lived in -- office pools aren't illegal if all the money that goes in goes back out. It becomes illegal if someone skims off the top. Minor point. I would love to see kids try to pull the we're-not-playing thing, and have the powers-that-be simply say, "Okay, see ya." and bring in the team that they beat. This line did make me laugh though, regarding point shaving: "...everybody else was doing it. It could get messy out there when the other team was shaving, too. We'd know when we purposely threw away a pass, and we'd get it right back."
posted by SummersEve at 04:00 PM on March 26, 2007
Several thoughts: First, while I think we could come up with a way to give the players spending money to help them through their college years, to say that they are not reimbursed for their efforts is misleading. Every kid on the court for the Div. 1 games is on a scholarship, getting an education worth far more than they would ever earn working at part-time jobs like the rest of us did. As to their grades, some do well, others do not. There are plenty of top athletes that do graduate with decent grades. However, for the rest I do wonder if the problem doesn't start well before they ever get to college. Office pools aren't an issue, and I personally don't think that Vegas really sways players. Though, as someone that was in Vegas for the first round, point shaving may be an excuse for my lousy bets! As for the racist comments, I hope we don't get to the point that we try to instill quotas on sports. Minnesota sports are bad enough, but if we can't recruite the kids from Chicago it will be all farm kids....no one wants to see Sven Larson dunk the ball!
posted by dviking at 05:37 PM on March 26, 2007
However, for the rest I do wonder if the problem doesn't start well before they ever get to college. This is right on point. Most kids who make it to college on an athletic scholarship have already been tainted. Whether they were given free shoes by an AAU coach or free grades by high school (or even middle school) teachers. A lot of these "kids" come into high school and then college with a sense of entitlement. They feel that they are owed something because they were blessed with a god given talent, while everyone else should have to work for what they get. I know from first-hand experience that being a student-athlete is challenging, however working 40 hrs a week and going to school full time is 10x harder. If these kids aren't enjoying the game anymore, I'm sure we could find a couple million other kids (black, white, asian, etc..) who would love to play college ball for a free education.
posted by yay-yo at 06:23 PM on March 26, 2007
Not sure I see how it's racist. Perhaps cf. Chris Rock: "Shaq is rich. The white man who signs his checks is wealthy." At this time of year back home, the old jokes get recycled about the Oxford-Cambridge boat race: 'How come the same two teams always make it to the final.' But college sport in the US is such a conflicted enterprise: part development league, part massive money-spinner for deans and presidents, a celebration of amateurism drenched in money.
posted by etagloh at 06:25 PM on March 26, 2007
"...love to play college ball for a free education" "Every kid on the court for the Div. 1 games is on a scholarship, getting an education..." They may be getting educated but they certainly aren't graduating. A minor league system, for both basketball and football would help keep the "student" in these college atheletes.
posted by DaDad at 12:12 AM on March 27, 2007
He didn't make a very good case for it being racist. White students are rooting for the black players even though the black players are a small minority at the campus? Not sure I see how it's racist. Unbalanced perhaps, but not racist. As for the racist comments, I hope we don't get to the point that we try to instill quotas on sports. ....no one wants to see Sven Larson dunk the ball! Okay, not to go on a diatribe here, but in a nutshell y'all are making the arguments for what critical race theorists are calling: "new racism" institutional racism democratic racism Comment #1: consider what being fetishized might feel like. and, consider the perpetuation of long-standing racist ideology when all you do is celebrate blackness when it appears in a form (sport) that you expect it to. Comment #2: when there are institutional barriers to full participation, how can you say that it's not sexist/racist/homophobic/etc.? don't just stick on the fact that it is imbalanced, ask yourself "why" it might be that way. see response to #1 above. Comment #3: why not? what are you afraid of? what if there were "quotas"? would that mean that those in a position of privilege might not be able to realize their assumed entitlements? hmmm? Comment #4: "no one" wants to see a white guy dunk a ball? no one? why not? Ooops ... I guess I kinda got goin' on that diatribe I was trying to avoid. So to close with someone else's words, not mine ... well put, Weedy. As usual, well put. And it is racist. I don't think you have to have a case built for you to see that. Not that this should be some kind of scapegoat for the black community - but I can see why I'd be pissed about it. Absolutely.
posted by Spitztengle at 12:51 AM on March 27, 2007
There's plenty of racism in this world, but I just don't see it in this case. It's just simply numbers. But first, the whole argument is flawed on several levels, the least of which is, we're talking about a hypothetical college campus. Comment #2: when there are institutional barriers to full participation, how can you say that it's not sexist/racist/homophobic/etc.? don't just stick on the fact that it is imbalanced, ask yourself "why" it might be that way. What are these "institutional barriers"? If an athlete, regardless of color, gets into a college, how is he different than any other student? My answer to why it's imbalanced would be simple. More black people play basketball on a higher level than white people. That's not racist, it's just numbers. I do appreciate your comment #1. That is very true. But I guess my response would be isn't it equally presumptuous (if not worse) to just assume these kids don't belong on campus because they play basketball? Are there exceptions? Of course there are, but I think we're looking at a small sample size and deducing that sky is falling. Quotas in sports? Seriously? Let's get rid of getting the best and take folks by demographics. Umm... bad idea. Comment #4, I have to agree with you and will go one step further to say the original statement was just stupid. We see athletes' graduation rates and cry foul, but we ignore the general populations' rates, which in some cases, when broken down along racial lines are even worse. Maybe we should be starting there.
posted by SummersEve at 05:39 AM on March 27, 2007
Keyboard broken, squirrelone? It's fine if you don't care. Stay out of the thread; no one's twisting your arm to participate. But "who cares?" is an idjit question and a waste of electrons. The people participating in the thread care, that's who, and they don't need to justify their interest to you. Move on now, nothing to see here.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 12:13 PM on March 27, 2007
It's not always a question of caring, but of enjoying the discussion. Is reforming the NCAA one of the most important things in my life? No. It's the 11th. Usually in the summer it moves to around the fifteenth. Once, in mid-December 2005 it went as low as 29th, but subsequently moved up to 12th after a particularly satisfying Duke loss a week thereafter. So my point is - I really believe that most artificial sweetners are suitable with coffee, and in the right proportion can give an equal amount of enjoyment as the real thing.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 12:38 PM on March 27, 2007
Squirrelone, if you ever bring something of value to a conversation, be sure to let me know. Because so far you're batting .000. Read this.
posted by SummersEve at 02:02 PM on March 27, 2007
Too late for mr. squirrel. 26 commas maybe, 27 is over the line.
posted by justgary at 04:02 PM on March 27, 2007
Gary, how many question marks are too many? 137? That's my count, but I might be off by one or 2.
posted by tommybiden at 04:46 PM on March 27, 2007
Tommy I got to five and then I gave up.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 06:34 PM on March 27, 2007
A couple of thoughts: During the NCAA press conferences, they keep referring to the players as student athletes. After the Ohio State game, the press asked 5-6 questions about Oden, I was thinking how great it would be if they asked them how they find the time to study and keep up with their school work during the Tournament. I think the idea of disclosure is terrible. Disclosure of athletes grades would put more burden and pressure on the ones that are already bearing the biggest burden. Wow, he really doen't like Myles Brand. He didn't make a very good case for it being racist. White students are rooting for the black players even though the black players are a small minority at the campus? Surely, he could do better than that.