11/21/24
December 08, 2006
Wilt Chamberlain-Archie Clark, Charles Barkley-Jeff Hornacek, Allen Iverson-?: What once was merely a theoretical question has evolved into a real life problem for Philadelphia 76ers president Billy King. What is fair trade value for Allen Iverson?
posted by Bishop to basketball at 08:14 PM - 16 comments
I love Iverson, and have loved watching him... But when you have to move a forward to the point because he can't get the ball because the guard won't pass... there's something wrong. Iverson's right, they needed a change. He needed to share the ball. Yeah, he scored 45 against the Heat and the Sixers still lost, but he took 37 shots. I totally agree he never got the supporting cast he deserved (almost in '01) but he's taken not passing to another level this year, and Cheeks has done nothing to stem it. They won't get anywhere near his value, but best for both parties if he's traded. And I will definitely miss him.
posted by SummersEve at 09:44 PM on December 08, 2006
He needed to share the ball. Yeah, he scored 45 against the Heat and the Sixers still lost, but he took 37 shots This has always been a hot topic about Iverson. First of all, he led the team in assists for the past I don't know how many years. If Steve Nash could put up 40 a night and still get 8-12 assists, he would get the MVP every year. Iverson's FG% was the highest it ever was last year. As far as his shots, I use to feel the same way, "he can't be taking 35 shots a game", until I saw him play in person. I will give a brief example of why Iverson gets so many shots. AI made a steal at mid court, quickly took a 16 footer, missed, beat everyone on the court to the rim, got the rebound, put it right back up, missed, the ball was tipped out by the other team, Iverson then beat everyone else to the loose ball and took his 3rd shot all in the matter of 5-8 seconds, while 3 of his teammates were still trying to figure out how he got the ball in the 1st place. His speed is the reason for his shot totals. The Sixers have talent, they don't have rebounding and defense. When they did, they were a playoff team and a threat to win it with AI. The coach would say, "we need to play better defense", so AI would go lead the league in steals. He can't do everything. Some would say, he's a defensive liability because of his size, so was Isaiah Thomas, but that didn't stop Detroit from winning 2 Championships. The problem has never been Iverson, and the problem wasn't Barkley, the problem for the Sixers is and has always been getting a supporting cast that can play around great players. They had it in 01', but they ran into Shaq and a great Laker team (who Iverson beat almost single handily in game 1).
posted by Bishop at 11:41 PM on December 08, 2006
I think this will be best in a couple of situations. Philadelphia has NOT done enough to support AI. Their best year with AI was when Dikembe was the only other good player they had. Not even close in the finals. Any team should surround a Superstar like Iverson with championship caliber players. AI might have even waited too late, but because Philly is a great city, he has been so loyal. Minnesota is in the same situation with Garnett. One great season a while ago, and now rebuilding again. KG and AI are too old to start from the bottom. AI should be exchanged for Mike James, Eddie Griffin, and Randy Foye. Maybe a pick, or another dead contract but this will give each team a change, and what they need. It gives the 76ers two options at point, their problem position, and a young replacement for C-Webb. AI is everything Garnett has ever wanted in Minnesota. I was beginning to think he would be happy with Starbury coming back, so AI .... WAY BETTER. Celtics are a bad fit for AI, no help inside, and Paul Pierce has never known how to win. Nuggets would be a good situation if the 76ers can get fair value. It would take Nene, JR smith, and Andre Miller. Tough Call for the Nuggets who finally look good. Plus Melo and AI might not work, too much offense. I like that the Hawks and Mavericks sound interested but their is no way the Mavs could pull it off without letting go of Terry or Howard, and those are keepers.
posted by Snikastyle at 12:51 AM on December 09, 2006
David Aldridge with some trade possibilities. With what they might get for him, I think I'd rather just see dead contracts and start from scratch. Yuck. For the most part, I agree, Bishop. They're defense is pathetic. But Iverson's trying to do too much and it isn't (wasn't?) working. Iverson's statement through his lawyer in the Philadelphia Daily News... I have expressed my frustration to my teammates, however, I have continued to give 100 percent night in and night out. Apparently, it hasn't been enough to help our team win. As hard as it is to admit, a change may be the best thing for everyone. I hate admitting that because I love the guys on the team and the city of Philadelphia. I truly wanted to retire a 76er. I appreciate that in my 11 years in Philadelphia, the fans have always stood by me, supported me, and gone to bat for me. You could take your FPP link a couple steps further. Schilling, Rolen, Lindros... The list makes me want to cry. And it always comes down to a player saying "I want out NOW." And the team ends up with nothing because everyone else knows they're desperate. SportsPhillyter....
posted by SummersEve at 02:29 AM on December 09, 2006
SportsPhillyter.... You've made some good points. You know what I was thinking, I couldn't help but wonder how long this thread would be, or how many people would voice their opinions about Iverson, if he let's say, smacked his wife. If Iverson got a traffic ticket, this thread would be twice as long as the other thread about athletes using the word nigga in a non-derogatory way.
posted by Bishop at 05:00 PM on December 09, 2006
It seems like the guy who wrote this acticle forgot to include Stephen Jackson in the possible trades with Indiana. If I were involved with the Pacers I would try to get rid of that guy A.S.A.P. He's a cancer and he's not even that good. Usually when people get as much hype as that guy has, you have to be a pretty good player. I just don't see Iverson fitting in anywhere that already has an established leader/star. Iverson has played his entire career as the focal point of the offense (if you want to be PC or as the entire offense if you don't care). He has shown his ability to distribute the rock, but I don't see him capable of sacrificing the shots. He has no qualms about firing up a shot and that is a trait that is hard to reign in.
posted by yay-yo at 05:11 PM on December 09, 2006
What has happened to Philly sports? The fans booing Jeff Garcia's play Monday Night (particularly after a vicious hit knocked the wind out of him) are perfect examples of why your city's sports demise is pure glee to me.
posted by mjkredliner at 06:19 PM on December 09, 2006
Bishop, you are absolutely right. He put up with some serious crap, some deserved most not. Mjk, the Garcia booing has been a discussion up here, like how many people were actually booing, and how many people were booing because they thought there should have been a roughing the passer call. There were A-J chants, but people at the game say they weren't that noticeable, media at the game say they were totally noticable. But you have to remember A.J. Feeley became kind of a folk hero after he led the Eagels to the playoffs and started dating Heather Mitts. ESPN's made a living off painting Philadelphia as such a horribly tough town. And we do our fair share of booing. When I was a teenager (early 90's), we thought it was hilarious to boo everything. I've learned. The thing that's bothered me, and even Garcia said it this week, fans everywhere boo. You see fans elsewhere throwing bottles on the field, and it gets a mention. If Philadelphia fans threw bottles on the field it would lead SportsCenter. A big problem is the morning host (Angelo Cataldi) on the local sports talk station knows his audience and plays them perfectly. Unfortunately, they take his word as gospel. The rest of the local sports media, especially the writers, are just as tough as NYC, but not quite as smart. The situation with Iverson and his wife a couple years ago was just embarrassing. Bishop sort of eluded to it, but tons of reporters basically camped out in front of his house. He was shooting baskets and it was covered like the mayor had been shot. There are the fair share of idiots. I defend the sports fans, but I'm reminded every time I go to a game (especially Phillies games) that there are a lot of dopes. I guess my long-winded point is we're not all idiots. So feel sympathy for some of us. 1983 was a long time ago.
posted by SummersEve at 07:00 PM on December 09, 2006
Man its pathetic to see what the Sixers have become. Its a shame that such a marvelous player is going to be traded. Iverson has always been my favorite player and im defintely sad about him leaving my fav team the sixers. Iverson is honeslty the best player i have ever seen play and i have seen Jordan play in his prime. Its just alot more impressive for a person of Iverson's stature to do what he does than somebody whos 6ft. 6in or something like that. Im defintely mad because i know the sixers are going to get crappy players in return. Nobody can equal the amount of work he puts in game in and game out. I think that Billy King seriously neeeeeeds to get fired cause he has not earned his money since 2001 when they went to the finals. And when the season ended last year he said something about them needing to change the team or whatever and i didnt see him do anything. Billy King never gets blamed and he really does need to because he never got Iverson the players he needed. I remember when he was trying to get Iverson a number 2 scorer he got Toni Kukoc,Matt Harpring,Keith Van Horn, Glenn Robinson, I mean come on seriously what was he thinking. Only until last year he got C-Webb and they were the number one scoring duo in the league but the overall Sixer defense was horrible. They cant out score every body all the time. And i hate when people say that he shoots too much because they fail to notice that he averages like 7-8 assits per game. Its not Iverson, its the rest of the team that plays with no heart. I like Sam Dalembert and all but he needs to step up and stop gettin into foul trouble, Iguodala needs to be more aggresive, Korver needs to play better D, and their bench needs to play better. At no point and time will I ever say that Iverson was the problem, because he isnt. Ive been watchin Philly play since forever and another thing I noticed is that Billy King never spends money and when he does he does it stupidly by giving away huge contracts to people who dont diserve it. I remember a couple of years ago they gave BRIAN SKINNER a 20 some MILLION DOLLAR CONTRACT. Are you kidding me. He didnt even do good and he was eventually traded. Billy King is a bad person for the job and i hope he gets fired cause in my book i think its his time to leave philly not Iverson.
posted by vickhater at 08:05 PM on December 09, 2006
The fans booing Jeff Garcia's play Monday Night (particularly after a vicious hit knocked the wind out of him) are perfect examples of why your city's sports demise is pure glee to me You never fail to add pure joy to a thread. You using the word Glee says enough about your view point. Thanks for helping further the topic. Next time just add 1 of your "I hate Tiger Woods because he is not a white man from Texas and he owns my favorite sport" posts. Sad thing is, if this was about Iverson getting arrested, you'd be 1 of, if not the first 1 to be posting some "lock him up and throw away the key" BS. Well, I guess with the Texans playing the way they are, you have to find something to make you "gleeful".
posted by Bishop at 08:38 PM on December 09, 2006
And you never fail to bring race into a situation needlessly. My post's about Tiger Woods speak for themselves. So does Iverson's arrest record. Houston Texans? Bah, who cares? Dallas is playing above expectations, life is great. Happy cheering on second echelon sports teams, pal.
posted by mjkredliner at 08:50 PM on December 09, 2006
Good news Sixers fans... It's a good year to be bad.
posted by SummersEve at 09:33 AM on December 10, 2006
And you never fail to bring race into a situation needlessly. My post's about Tiger Woods speak for themselves. Dude, Tiger isn't white. Live with it. You have had more threads deleted just because you were crying about Tiger not being white. It's actually funny. You should have plenty of experience with "second echelon" teams over the past decade with that dallas team. I've always said, nobody is happier with the eagles fortunes the past 2 years than cowbum fans. After all, you had to get an Eagle player (who took a dump on your star at midfield with more than 1 team) just to be competitive. You've spent the last decade rooting more for the Eagles to lose than you did rooting for the cowbums to win. Iverson's arrest record? If he came to play for the cowbums he'd fit right in. You jokers down their love your criminals, just ask jerry jones. "We be wantin to win by any means neccasssrryyy, yeee aahhhh". "We be using criminals, crackheads, and mental types (Irvin, Newton, Lett, Owens). How do you get a former/current Dallas cowbum player to stand up? Just say, "Will the defendant please rise". MJK, don't ever mention "arrest record" and Dallas in the same post again. Michael Irvin has a key to the city. Imagine that. Adultery, spousal abuse, crack,coke,weed, and you give him the key to the city? In exchange for what? An ounce of the "good stuff"? Happy cheering on second rate U.S citizens, crackheads and criminals. Remember all of the above the next time you try to crap on a thread.
posted by Bishop at 10:43 AM on December 10, 2006
You have had more threads deleted just because you were crying about Tiger not being white. That may be the biggest lie ever told on this site, my respect for Tiger as an athlete and a person is far greater than it is for any other athlete on the planet, my posts reflect that as well. Your points about Irvin and Jerry Jones are not disputed by me at all. The 'sixers played better without AI last night, though still lost. I personally dont feel that a career 40% shooter who is not an exceptional passer will command that much in return. Here's hoping Mark Cuban isn't dumb enough to ruin his team by making a deal for him.
posted by mjkredliner at 12:05 PM on December 10, 2006
Ok, you guys have made this into something it's not...a race issue. Allen Iverson isn't being traded because he's black and Tiger Woods doesn't whip eveyone's ass in golf because he's black either, they're just better than their competition. Please guys, get back to the issue at hand, stop making this into something more than it needs to be. I mean, don't get me wrong. It's highly entertaining seeing you guys go back and forth with your verbal sparring but it's getting a little out of hand. And as far as the Dallas Cowboys go, people always wanted to bash a team that's better than their own since my 'Boy's are in 1st place.
posted by BornIcon at 09:58 AM on December 13, 2006
During an interview on ESPN at the Sixers/Wizards game, Sixers Chairman Ed Snider has confirmed that Allen Iverson will be traded. Dmac out for the year, Flyers out to their worst start in decades, Sixers are 5-12 and now the heart and soul of Philly is leaving. What has happened to Philly sports? Thank God for Ryan Howard.