11/21/24
April 24, 2006
Ten months: after Liverpool changed the rules, (and with bitter rivals Arsenal just 90 minutes from the final), Tottenham want to change them back again.
posted by Mr Bismarck to soccer at 07:48 PM - 23 comments
Haven't we done this one Mr Bismarck? Just down there look ...
posted by walrus at 07:19 AM on April 25, 2006
Oh and in response to Drood's comment, one of the fundamental principles of the European Cup from its inception is that the holders should defend the trophy. The rules are messy, but they defend that priciple whilst not favouring any particular country by giving them more places than anyone else. Tottenham were fully aware of the qualification rules when they entered the league competition this season, so they haven't a leg to stand on. Oh and one more thing. Liverpool changed the rules? Don't think so mateyboy. Think you'll find that was UEFA.
posted by walrus at 07:21 AM on April 25, 2006
I think they do have a leg to stand on - I think the legal challenge outlined in the link you just posted could be effective.
posted by JJ at 07:53 AM on April 25, 2006
Damn - Sorry Walrus, I missed the double. My bad. And yes, UEFA changed the rules, obviously. I think UEFA have wedged themselves into a difficult spot here as they changed the rules to let Liverpool in last season, but then stated that from now on there can be no more than four teams from any one country, probably not expecting it to come up again, only to find themselves in the same position in just the next season. I don't think that UEFA can change them again, but they're always ready to please the leagues that have a lot of cash to swill around, so, if Arsenal do win the pot then I expect them to tell Spurs they're in the UEFA Cup, but I wouldn't be surprised if another exception was made.
posted by Mr Bismarck at 08:27 AM on April 25, 2006
No big deal, you took more effort on yours anyway! JJ ... I doubt it since they have tacitly accepted the rules by entering the competition without making a prior challenge. I do sympathise to some degree: I'd be gutted if it happened to us, but it's something you have to accept, as Zaragoza did when Real Madrid busted them into the UEFA Cup in the same manner with their most recent CL win from fifth place in La Liga. The difference from Liverpool's case is that the Premier League did not make a decision on the issue until May last year when we were already in the final, and in fact had guidance on their website until that time stating that the Champions would enter the competition if the situation arose and the fourth placed team would go into the UEFA Cup. They backed down on that in order to win a fifth English spot because they knew UEFA would not block the holders from defending their title, and so UEFA changed the rules to prevent the scenario arising again. They're now trying again to grab a fifth spot in order to set a precedent and increase their sizeable cash haul from the competition. It's cynical political manouevring on the side of the premier league, and Tottenham are just a willing stooge.
posted by walrus at 12:56 PM on April 25, 2006
Of course all this will be irrelevant if arse blows it. Heh.
posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 01:18 PM on April 25, 2006
Of course all this will be irrelevant if arse blows it. Even if they get to the Finals, I still don't see them beating Milan or Barca. Also moot if Spurs fail to take maximum points from their last league matches against Bolton and West Ham while Gunners run the table against Sunderland, Man City and Wigan.
posted by billsaysthis at 03:22 PM on April 25, 2006
Of course all this will be irrelevant if arse blows it. Too bad they didn't blow it. :-)
posted by Toxteth O'Grady at 03:47 PM on April 25, 2006
"Too bad they didn't blow it." Congratulations, you played very well in the last twenty five minutes to take possession into the middle of the pitch. But you must feel a shade lucky tonight, Villareal nullified your attacking threat with a team worth less than Thierry Henry. Good luck in the final!
posted by walrus at 04:13 PM on April 25, 2006
I just find it unfair. (I'm a Southampton fan, so it's not like this effects me in any way, shape or form.) They say no more than 4 teams from any one country. Fair play. But I think that should exclude the holders of the cup. They should gain automatic entry, and not at the expense of another team. I mean how much money do Tottenham stand to lose if Arsenal win and they do go in? Millions probably. I'm sick of EPL greed, just as most people are. While there is probably cynical motivation for this whole thing, on paper, it seems very unfair. I'm only interested in seeing what I feel is a fair outcome to the situation. I don't follow football that closely. Can someone explain why this has all of a sudden become an issue? Did UEFA change the rules?
posted by Drood at 04:17 PM on April 25, 2006
But you must feel a shade lucky tonight Beyond lucky, actually. That was a dire game. But the beauty of it is, in three weeks' time, it won't matter in the slightest how they played tonight. All that mattered was that they got the win, and they did that, aesthetics be damned. Bring on Paris!!!!!
posted by Toxteth O'Grady at 04:49 PM on April 25, 2006
"I don't follow football that closely. Can someone explain why this has all of a sudden become an issue? Did UEFA change the rules?" UEFA changed the rules BEFORE the start of the season, and Tottenham tacitly accepted them by not challenging them at that time. It has become an issue because the premier league have just seen an opportunity to make a pot full of money and have convinced Tottenham to play along, which must hardly have been difficult considering they wouldn't mind playing in it. My missus is a Saints fan. Think you have a fine new manager in Burley and I hope you make it back up next season.
posted by walrus at 04:50 PM on April 25, 2006
"Beyond lucky, actually. That was a dire game." Well it was always going to be Villareal's game plan and they came damn close. But I think Wenger had read the script because you came out of your shell just enough at just the right time. I actually enjoyed the game, but then I'm a bit of a purist. I think Villareal's little passing triangles were exquisite for sixty five minutes, but missing the penalty was ultimately justice served as it was a dive. Or is that a bit too neutral for you? ;-) Thought Henry's comments about us and Gerrard in the competition last season were class tonight by the way.
posted by walrus at 04:54 PM on April 25, 2006
ps, on the "how much money do Tottenham stand to lose" comment: none whatsoever. They have not qualified yet, even if they get fourth place! My team haven't even qualified, and we're guaranteed third.
posted by walrus at 04:57 PM on April 25, 2006
Henry's a class act, all the way. i will be gutted if he leaves, but if he drops a Champions League trophy off in the New Marble Halls before he goes that will pad his exit quite nicely...
posted by Toxteth O'Grady at 06:06 PM on April 25, 2006
Henry has crept into my all-time list of Legends whilst at Arsenal, along with such players as Baresi, Cruyff, Maradona, Dalglish, Best and Pele. You have to laud him for what he's given you even if he leaves. I was absolutely inconsolable when Keegan left us after we won our first European Cup, but then we got King Kenny. You move on ... no player is bigger than the club.
posted by walrus at 06:26 PM on April 25, 2006
Walrus: So this rule came in just this year? I think I need to refresh my memory of last years debacle to try and get the full picture:) As for Saints, it's very hard to follow over here in Canada unfortunately. Besides, I'm still bitter about Redknapp. Sure he was sent as a double agent for Portsmouth...
posted by Drood at 07:36 PM on April 25, 2006
Having read up on last years farce, I have to say how bloody stupid! So the rules are changed to appease one club, and the following year another club gets pissy.
posted by Drood at 07:43 PM on April 25, 2006
You move on ... no player is bigger than the club As a friend of mine once said, someday, when Henry retires, people will organize religions around that man. If he does move on, I will always remember him fondly, and look forward to the emergence of Robin van Persie. One thing Wenger does not do is guess wrong, and the kids coming through are just as exciting as the ones that are there now...
posted by Toxteth O'Grady at 08:25 PM on April 25, 2006
"Having read up on last years farce, I have to say how bloody stupid! So the rules are changed to appease one club, and the following year another club gets pissy." Have to take issue with that statement. You won't find one mention of Liverpool making any kind of statement on the issue or appeal to UEFA. The rules were not changed to "appease" us. Unless you mean they were changed to appease Everton? Certainly the premier league acted in breach of the guidelines published on their own website, and in breach of the precedent established in the past. UEFA acted to preserve a fundamental principle of the European Cup: that the holders should always defend it. To be fair they did screw up by not ensuring that in the first place, but the rules as they now stand enshrine that principle.
posted by walrus at 02:42 AM on April 26, 2006
It's fair to say that UEFA acted to appease a Football Association with a lot of money and, even though they've made their position very clear, I wouldn't be overly surprised if they did it again. (Although I don't think they will).
posted by Mr Bismarck at 07:11 AM on April 26, 2006
"It's fair to say that UEFA acted to appease a Football Association with a lot of money" No argument with that whatsoever.
posted by walrus at 07:20 AM on April 26, 2006
The rule should be that the team that wins automatically qualifies for it, just like the World Cup. (Though I can't remember if they want to change that rule, or the "host automatically qualifies" one. I know FIFA want to change one of them.) If an English team wins, then the 4 slots should go to league teams. They shouldn't lose one. Essentially Tottenham would be punished for Arsenal doing well. That isn't fair. And if it takes a rule change, and Buttfuckyztan from a former Russian state getting booted, so be it. NOTE: I am NOT a Spurs fan.