11/05/24
March 25, 2002
Is Scotty Pippen a Hall of Famer?: I think Scotty was a solid player in his prime, whose game fit perfectly with that of the man who was probably the best player of all time. Is having been Michael Jorden's caddy enough to get in?
posted by outside counsel to basketball at 05:23 PM - 13 comments
I thought this post was so outrageous I declined to comment. But I guess I have to counter jbou's idiocy. OF COURSE Scottie Pippen is a hall of famer. Without Jordan, the Bulls still win a championship or three. And today, Scottie is a better player.
posted by djacobs at 10:17 PM on March 25, 2002
djacobs, do you watch basketball, I hope you are you being sarcastic? Pippen is not a hall of famer, he is an average ballplayer, whose game was elevated by playing with the greatest player of all time. I put Pippen in the same category as James Worthless, I mean Worthy.
posted by jbou at 10:59 PM on March 25, 2002
jbou, I concur
posted by silent4lie at 11:21 PM on March 25, 2002
I'm inclined to agree with jbou, Pippen was just along for the ride in Chicago. Once Jordan left, the real Pippen was there for the NBA to see. "without Jordan, the Bulls still win a championship or three" like the two the Rockets won while Jordan was playing baseball?
posted by bambino at 12:32 PM on March 26, 2002
He is 7th on the all-time steals list and has over 5000 career assists. He's been on the NBA All-Defensive First Team 8 times and the second team twice. Which has only been matched during his career by Gary Payton. He ranks second in Bulls history in points, steals and assists. He has 6 championship rings, and is much-maligned by people who know nothing about basketball, including Charles Barkley. We're not talking about Cliff Levingston here this is Scottie Pippen and he belongs in the Hall of Fame. The idea that he was 'along for the ride' is ridiculous. How many championships has Jordan won without Scottie Pippen?
posted by pastepotpete at 02:24 PM on March 26, 2002
I'm with pete. jbou: Who is a better player *today* ? Pippen, hands down.
posted by djacobs at 04:55 PM on March 26, 2002
Pippen clearly should be in the hall of fame, in my mind. i think that whether or not his stats were somehow padded by jordan's presence is irrelevant -- was Cosie (sp?) penalized by Russell's presence? indeed, whatever pippen is now isn't all that relevant (just as Jordan's diminished minutes should have no impact on his hall-of-fame status); as far as the HOF goes, all that matters are career stats, and pippen's got a bunch.
posted by moz at 05:11 PM on March 26, 2002
Pippen is not better then Jordan now anyway, Jordan is still in the top ten in scoring, where is Scottie? averaging 11 pts a game. His assists are up there because he ran what was considered the point in Jacksons triangle offense, and he has a couple 100 more assists then Jordan. I won't knock his defensive skills, but he has no heart, the Blazers are no better off since they signed Scottie. Compare Scottie to Dr J , there is no comparison, Dr J carried his team with or without Moses Malone, Dr J had a better career then Pippen, more points per game more rebounds, and just as many assists. The all defensive team is a subjective thing anyway, Pippen is a slightly better then average player, sorry.
posted by jbou at 07:22 PM on March 26, 2002
I think Pippen was far better than an average player, and he belongs in the hall. That said, I don't want him on my team.
posted by justgary at 10:47 PM on March 26, 2002
I won't knock his defensive skills, but he has no heart, the Blazers are no better off since they signed Scottie. Um, I know several teams in the Western Conference right now who would beg to differ... Compare Scottie to Dr J , there is no comparison There are usually two fallacies in Hall-of-Fame discussions in any sport: the first, and most common, is the "If X got in, then so should Y" which leads to a slippery slope and questionable inductees as the minimum talent level to get in gradually gets lowered. Less common but just as flawed is the "Y is no X, so Y does not deserve to be in" when X is an unfair comparison by which all contenders fall short. Saying that "Pippen is no Dr. J" puts a very very good player up against competition that basically no one can meet. Pippen is not quite in the class of Jordan or Bird- but who is? Those folks are in their own pantheon; Pippen is one of several players that deservedly populate that second tier of HOF players who aren't quite Living Gods but darn close- much closer than most players will ever get. The only time Pippen wasn't the best player on his team was when he played with Jordan. Imagine how empty the Baseball Hall of Fame would be if every nominee was evaluated by asking "Are they as good as Babe Ruth?". If anyone, you'd have like 3 or 4 other guys in the HOF. Naturally, the always-pithy Sports Guy has weighed in on the topic of Halls of Fame in a column from January 8th, making a very compelling argument for a Pyramid shaped hall of fame; this is true for basketball as well.
posted by hincandenza at 11:05 PM on March 26, 2002
"If Scottie Pippen was on our team, we'd win the championship" - Chris Webber, 3 weeks ago.
posted by djacobs at 02:36 PM on March 27, 2002
Ask Webber if he'd rather have Scottie, or Jordan, look what Jordan has done for the Wizards.
posted by jbou at 07:35 PM on March 27, 2002
Hell no! Scottie Pippen has no heart, lets all travel back to the Knicks Bulls series in 93 when Xavier McDaniel punked him down the whole series, Jordan carried him in that series, and throughout their whole time with the Bulls. When Scottie finally was Jordanless he couldn't carry a team to save his life. It was a disgrace to have him in the 50 greatest players off all time.