11/21/24
November 03, 2003
Finally! An honest-to-goodness closer in Philadelphia.: The Phillies pull the trigger, acquire all-star closer Billy Wagner. News conference set for this afternoon. Sources are saying pitcher Brandon Duckworth and player(s) to be named later are headed to Houston.
I don't know why the Astros wouldn't have either done this sooner, or dealt away either Lidge or Dotel. Can you imagine what the Yankees or Red Sox would have given up for either of them? I suppose it's about the cash, though ... and that Wagner has called McLane for being a penny-pinching miser.
posted by wfrazerjr at 12:36 PM on November 03, 2003
It would seem like it's mostly about, money, and probably partly over the fact that he ripped ownership this past season. Most likely mainly about money though. Because when you look at the numbers, you have to wonder. . . 2003 Numbers To Philadelphia: *Wagner, age 32: 1-4, 1.78 ERA, 44 saves/47 opportunities, 78 games To Houston: *Duckworth, age 27: 4-7, 4.94 ERA, 18 starts, 6 relief appearances *Buchholz, age 22: 9-11, 3.55 ERA in 25 games (AA-Reading) *Astacio, age 24 (tomorrow): 15-5, 3.29 ERA (A-Clearwater) The numbers are something to look at. Other than Astacio's, who mind you, put up great numbers -- in single-A -- it seems like a lopsided deal in favor of the Phils. Duckworth was worthless this season. I was hoping they could have moved him during the season, but I was dreaming. I'm amazed anyone other ballclub would be that much of a sucker to take him off Philly's hands. Everyone in this town knows he's been nothing short of a bust in this town the last few seasons.
posted by rosey8810 at 12:53 PM on November 03, 2003
Houston fans should be complaining as loudly as some other fans who are constantly getting screwed. Like Leaf fans - they seem to have to put up with an ever-whining group of owners who hang their hats on a winning season without spending too much money getting there. Then it's one round and out because they've failed to make the all-important move to bolster their team (unless said move doesn't cost them anything). If you look at the sheer talent that's moved through Houston over the last 5 years, it's staggering. Wagner has a chance to be one of the best all-time at his position - consistently doing the job and well at that. Philly is looking really good here - now there's a bunch of guys who seem to want to win.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:27 PM on November 03, 2003
* 2003 Reading 9-11 3.55 144.2 136 33 114 There is Buchholz's line from last year. You'll notice the 33 BB against 114 Ks. Pretty salty for a 22-year-old playing for a 62-79 team. His BB/K ratio has been above 2.5 for three years — this kid's a comer. * 2003 Clearwater 15 5 3.29 147.2 140 29 83 There's Astacio, who also has nice numbers, but he's 24 and in A ball, which I don't really get. That doesn't make him much to talk about in my book. Duckworth, well, who knows? You add him to a strong young rotation and he could finally come up big. The bottom line here to me is Wagner was unnecessary to Houston. Yes, yes, I know, he rocks ass. He's also incredibly expensive and they have two other cheap alternatives right behind him. I don't know that I would have taken what the Phillies gave (although the package is, I think, better than it might look right now), but one of the HOLY TRIO had to go, and Wagner had the paycheck.
posted by wfrazerjr at 05:13 PM on November 03, 2003
Considering the fact that Wagner is expensive, 32, a free-agent after this season and Houston has other viable options at closer, I think that they may have swung a good deal here. As is the case with all established players for prospects deal, there's no point on saying who won the deal until the players have made it to the big leagues for a couple of years. There have been countless cases of players being traded for blue chip prospects that haven't panned out; there's a risk involved but also a great upside. I think the key to Phili's success is resigning/replacing effectively Kevin Millwood. He's a horse on the front end of your rotation and a person who can throw that many effective innings is invaluable to a postseason-bound team, especially with his playoff experience.
posted by chuck cash at 06:43 AM on November 04, 2003
As well, any who say that Duckworth is washed up can look at a variety of cases this year of players who took a while before they were ready to be productive big leaguers; Jose Guillen, Esteban Loaiza, David Ortiz (to a less extent but he definitely realized his potential this year) as primary examples. Duckworth's current worth may be lower than it was 2 years ago but you have to think that he's got the stuff to put it together if he gets the right guidance.
posted by chuck cash at 06:46 AM on November 04, 2003
I'd say you can pretty much write off Millwood coming back to the Phils. He was a one-year rental, and frankly, he didn't impress that much down the stretch. But he was solid enough to keep them in the race until the end. The key to the Phils will be getting either a stud #1 or a couple solid #2/#3's and suring up that rotation before spring training. Wolf, Myers and Padilla should be steady (though Padilla scares me sometimes). I don't think Wolf has what it takes (yet) to be a #1 -- Myers may be someday, maybe a few seasons down the road. If they could pull in an Andy Pettite or something close, and maybe a steady #5, it could go a long way in putting this club in contention for the division. I'd just like to see Ed Wade get a staff in place that could be counted on to go 6-7 innings and not have to depend on that bullpen night in and night out.
posted by rosey8810 at 09:09 AM on November 04, 2003
Arrrrgghhh I wanted him! Oh well, at least it's in the NL.