12/21/24
July 09, 2010
Cliff Lee traded to First-Place A.L. Team: Cliff Lee was traded from the Mariners to another American League team that's in first place. It's the Rangers, though, and not the Yankees. But will the league allow the move with the current financial issues surrounding the Rangers?
As a Twins fan, I was really pissed off when I heard he might be going to the Yankees. I'd still rather see Lee as a Twin, but him going to the Rangers doesn't bother me as much. At least the Rangers actually need him. The Yankees can wait until the offseason to have him.
posted by TheQatarian at 08:29 PM on July 09, 2010
The Yankees will simply pick him up during the off season:
CC: "I don't think we have to do much recruiting," said Sabathia, who played with Lee in Cleveland. "He knows what it's like over here. I've talked to him a bunch about being in the clubhouse and being part of the team. Hopefully it works out."
They'll probably pick up roy oswalt also just in case any of the top 5 come up injured, or catch a cold. It's good to have depth.
posted by justgary at 11:55 PM on July 09, 2010
The Yankees will simply pick him up during the off season
Some people are still focused on this season. Lee going to a team that will likely win the division and go into the playoffs creates the possibility he can dominate a series with multiple starts. Two starts in a opening series probably means a pass into the AL Championship series.
posted by dyams at 09:06 AM on July 10, 2010
I've talked to him a bunch about being in the clubhouse and being part of the team.
Raises the question: Should player tampering rules also extend to players on a team and not just to that team's owner or management?
Mark Cuban brought up this issue with regard to the Lebron James move to join Wade and Bosh.
posted by graymatters at 12:11 PM on July 10, 2010
As to the Lee move to the Rangers, Texas bullpen has folded in last two games against Orioles. Hope this is not a reversion to the past and a sign of things to come. Lee can potentially win games all by himself as far as pitching because of his ability to go deep or even complete games, but the remaining starters have to depend on the bullpen.
posted by graymatters at 12:14 PM on July 10, 2010
Some people are still focused on this season.
Except for Sabathia.
Should player tampering rules also extend to players on a team and not just to that team's owner or management?
They'll just learn to keep their mouths shut, which sabathia should have done in the first place. Nothing like going to your new team with a guy on a competing team saying 'this is where he really wants to be, we'll get him in the off season'.
posted by justgary at 12:20 PM on July 10, 2010
Meh on the tampering, Lee admitted that as soon as he heard the Yankees rumors he gave his old friend Sabathia a call to get a read on NY. If he had a friend on the Twins or Rangers they would have got a call as well.
Unless you prohibit contact between players on competing teams (good luck with that) there is no way to control this.
Have to admit Lee was very, very good for the Mariners. A third of a season of stellar pitching and they used him to turn Aumont + parts into Smoak + better parts. Great bit of opportunistic trading.
posted by deflated at 01:52 PM on July 10, 2010
Some people are still focused on this season.
Except for Sabathia.
11-3; 3.19; 103 K's. Seems pretty focused so far to me.
As for the tampering, you have to be naive to think it doesn't happen, or that it can be avoided. We live in the age of instant-contact with anyone, anywhere in the world. It will happen in every sport.
posted by dyams at 10:02 PM on July 10, 2010
Seems pretty focused so far to me.
I didn't understand what you originally meant by the comment, but thanks for CCs stats. i had no idea he was good.
As far as tampering it doesn't matter. If all things are equal, maybe. But the Yankees can and will offer more than any other team in baseball for any player(s) they want. They have no need to tamper. Their advantages far outweigh anything gained by CC running his mouth.
posted by justgary at 10:27 PM on July 10, 2010
"The Yankees do not do business that way," an angered Yankees official said of the Mariners agreeing to a deal, but backing out before it could be finalized. "When we say something is a deal, it is a deal."
posted by justgary at 05:21 AM on July 11, 2010
The Rangers were a bit underhanded in their dealings this time, but when it's the Yankees getting taken advantage of, with the Mariners, in this instance, going against the accepted practices of baseball GMs, there's enough people that think since it's the Yankees getting screwed, no big deal. The Yankees were offering a lot of talent to Seattle in exchange for Lee, and Seattle used them to get something else. You can't just dismiss the idea the Mariners went against the trade procedures that have been established in baseball.
With regards to me offering up Sabathia's stats, my original comment meant New York is focused on winning the World Series this year, not what Lee could do for them, possibly, in future years. And I knew what you meant. I just didn't like a comment saying Sabathia isn't focused, regardless of it's context. And the idea two friends wouldn't talk to each other when they were on the verge of working together again is ridiculous. Call it "tampering" but all I see it as is two guys glad they'll be playing again together. The fact they were talking in this manner seems to point to the idea the Mariners did have a deal in place, yet went back on their agreement to deal with Texas instead. And just because it's the Yankees they did it to doesn't make it acceptable or right.
posted by dyams at 09:12 AM on July 11, 2010
The Rangers were a bit underhanded in their dealings
How were the Rangers underhanded? By outbidding the Yankees?
posted by graymatters at 11:29 AM on July 11, 2010
I just didn't like a comment saying Sabathia isn't focused, regardless of it's context.
But my comment had nothing to do with Sabathia's focus. I was simply saying that the Yankees could very well pick up Lee in the off season. Sabathia's comment just supports that opinion.
Not that it matters, but of course the Yankees front office is thinking about next year. I'm sure they're thinking about the next 5 years. I don't think that takes away from the focus on this year. I think they'd be dumb not to.
And my sarcasm was because I don't see the trade as actually needed. It just seemed to be a trade they wanted to happen because they can, and it shows the ridiculous salary problem the league has. Pettitte has been awsome. CC very good. Vazquez has recently been unhittable. Hughes was among the best pitchers in the league at the beginning of the year before cooling off. Burnett has had problems, but he has a huge contract and loads of talent. Thats 5 starters. 5 starters that are or could be allstar caliper. Where was Lee, another allstar, going to fit? Was there an injury? Or was hughes going to replace Joba in the 8th?
Call it "tampering" but all I see it as is two guys glad they'll be playing again together.
I don't think it's tampering. I do think Sabathia should have probably kept that to himself, for many reasons, but athletes rarely think before talking. But I never said it was tampering.
And just because it's the Yankees they did it to doesn't make it acceptable or right.
Well, I'm not exactly sure what happened. Only the two teams do, and we're getting the Yankees side. And if something was done wrong, or even shady, of course it still matters.
All I'm saying is the Yankees have a ton of advantages over almost any other team (you can include the Red Sox in with the Yankees also). They have a fantastic history, they play in what many people believe is the greatest city in the world, they have the biggest stage, the nicest ballpark, and they have the biggest payroll.
They've earned their history, they play in New York by chance, and there's nothing illegal about the money they spend, but it's very rare for the Yankees not to get exactly who they want. So if Seattle, with half the payroll of the Yankees, can use the Yankees as a bargaining chip, even at the last minute, I have no problem with them doing so. Any advantage they can get, even if shady, I can understand because of their position compared to the Yankees.
Being a Yankee fan I completely understand you not liking it. And I can understand the Yankees not liking it. And I wouldn't blame them for getting revenge on seattle in some way in the future. It's probably risky having the Yankee front office mad at you. But complaining about it so publicly, with all their advantages, seems a little comical to me.
posted by justgary at 01:26 PM on July 11, 2010
The Rangers were a bit underhanded in their dealings
I meant the Mariners.
And, honestly, the trade doesn't appear necessary for the Yankees, except for the fact they can't beat Lee, especially come playoff time. Now he's sitting with another contender. If he winds up beating the Yankees in multiple playoff starts, it will show exactly why the Yankees wanted him so badly.
With regards to sheer competition between teams and this year's playoff race, this is fine for baseball. But it appears the Yankees had that so-called "deal in principle" all worked out and the Mariners may have backed out, which isn't the way teams generally operate when making trades. The Yankees may have a legitimate reason to be angry, regardless of how much money or talent they have.
posted by dyams at 02:50 PM on July 11, 2010
If he winds up beating the Yankees in multiple playoff starts, it will show exactly why the Yankees wanted him so badly.
I don't see it that way. If the Yankees pitch and hit up to their talent level they'll beat the Rangers. If they don't, they don't deserve to go on.
I mean, think about what you're saying. The Yankees don't really need him, but simply want him because they can't beat him. For me that pretty much sums up the problems with the current system.
The Yankees may have a legitimate reason to be angry, regardless of how much money or talent they have.
No doubt. If something illegal happened (not that it did) something should be done, regardless of pay roll. And if something was done shady, but not illegal, the Yankees have every right to be mad.
I guess what I'm saying is I understand why the mariners would do anything short of illegal, considering what they're working with, to get an advantage. If they pissed off the Yankees I'm sure NY won't forget.
posted by justgary at 06:33 PM on July 12, 2010
Still kind of nice for the Yankees that the trade happened when it did, seeing as how Lee was set to pitch against them tonight.